[CLOSED] New Docs Discussion: Should we recommend a platform?

(YvesHanoulle) #41

Platform is one thing.

What about memory size and or CPU?

I know this depends on how many bindings, items and rules, yet maybe there is a guideline like:

when you have xx binding, yy items, zz rules
you need (xx * www + yy * uu + zz * vv) MB of memory

as a kind of ballpark idea.

(Rolf Vermeer) #42

I’d say that is a secondary thing, in general you have some minimal system requirements. And how that scales with number of devices, type of devices, bindings, and so on, is not too relevant at first.

(Andrew Rowe) #43

as stated earlier and again quoting Martin’s great post:

Also @yves please check in on the discussion thread in your PR about moving the Architecture section from Introduction section to Concept section.
Markus L is preparing a PR for re-write of Introduction page and has left architecture section intact but we both agree with you that it should be moved as part of the ‘new user documentation initiative’ which we can now just refer to as the NUDI because geeks love acronyms :laughing: (kidding)

(Andrew Rowe) #44

yeah but… no wait… we are saying… eventually a dedicated system is best…So I, as a new user, buys what is ‘recommended’ get what you tell me to get, then later after investing more $$$ it doesn’t cut it anymore?

(YvesHanoulle) #45

I’mm rephrase then, what are the minimal requirments needed.

that is important to see if an old laptop/computer is a good idea.
I know I have an 10 year old pizzabox server somewhere in my old house, yet I had no idea if I could use it.

(Rolf Vermeer) #46

No, don’t buy, use what you already have.
The last thing you want to advise is that a new potential user should buy things they are by no means familiar with.

(Andrew Rowe) #47

great thing about old dead windows machines is they run Linux like new money baby!!!

for the record further explanation, when I purchased a dedicated PC to run openHAB on, I didn’t want to do the Pi thing simply because I wanted to build as reliable a set up as possible. From what I have read (and I guess this thread is as good as anywhere to discuss this) Pi can run out of magic pixie dust if pressed to hard. Long start up times, eating SD cards blah blah blah

I purchased a brand new $300 PC that had Windoze 10 loaded on it. I3 w/ 8 Gbs and 1 Tbs spinny HD… a Dell… I was like really??? with Win10??? but I knew with Deb the thing would fly… and it does. Without anything else running load is less then 2% Runs a second Apache server w/ PHP with out breathing heavy

(Andrew Rowe) #48

We are talking a $35 thing here Rolf… apparently lots of geek types have these things layng around just like you and I have dead PCs

(Rolf Vermeer) #49

It’s not about the 35 dollar here (well it might as well be actually), it is about having to deal with something they are unfamiliar with. Or more generally: it’s about raising the threshold for new potential users to make te jump, or leap of faith if you like.

(YvesHanoulle) #50

great thing about old dead windows machines is they run Linux like new money baby!!!

haha, I just spend my whole saturday installing 30 old laptops with an ubuntu image for a local coderdojo. (actually the spending was mostly waiting on the updates that were downloaded to these machines)
(Waiting for the last 4 to finish before going to bed, so when my partner leave to work tomorrow morning -eh today already- they are gone)

(Andrew Rowe) #51

I wholeheartedly agree, basically the reason I started this thread. The other thread this one spun off of, I stated I didn’t think software developers, maintainers and contributors should necessarily ‘recommend’ a hardware platform. Since then because of this discussion, I have been swayed to thinking otherwise by users with much grater experience then myself.
problem is Windows sucks! :laughing:
only kidding, but seriously, it is stupid easy to flash SD card on your Win machine (I’m guessing, never tried) and win installation is far from native and definitely not Microsoft endorsed method of developing applications for Windows. I think for Windows to be recommendation to new users would require talented Windows developer with experience creating proper installation for openHAB
In my opinion, a bit of a fool’s errant

(Rolf Vermeer) #52

Agreed, but what is the point you would like to make here then? That OpenHAB is not usable for Windows systems and/or that the developers haven’t done enough to make OpenHAB Windows compatible? That is a whole different discussion than what this topic was (intended to be) about.

(Andrew Rowe) #53

I’m sorry and I’m not saying this sarcastically, but for my point, see the title of the thread. ‘SHOULD’ we recommend at platform?
When I started the thread, I didn’t really think so… hence thread

Edit to add:
but the discussion is about new user documentation and popular opinion seems to be that a ‘recommended’ platform should be suggested and of the choices Pi sucks least?

(Alex) #54

The most important question is not which platform is the best, but how to get new users excited about using Openhab. Second, the question arises, which target group should be reached. Do we want to reach the leaked computer nerd or the normal consumer or noobs? If an average consumer is the target, then you should start with an operating system that is used on 90% of all PCs worldwide. Or using just the system that is currently available to use. As I said, just to try and practice or play around. One can also refer to the many advantages of an Openhabian or Raspberry and suggest the user. However, if our target group is the nerd, then new documentation is completely unnecessary.

(Andrew Rowe) #55

if I had to pick a point out of those two… can’t really, old dead Win PC with Linux is great choice, installation on Win is less then easy

I agree, if you are a strong advocate of running openHAB on Win, split off a discussion on that and perhaps solicit some help and at least maybe a discussion will ensue which could reveal options for improving Win install or whatever

Sorry… edit to add:

People contribute what they want/can/have time to help with. Saying developers haven’t done enough smacks of being unappreciative which I never would want to be or come across as
again if you are a strong advocate of running openHAB on Win … start a thread, make PRs and raise issues

(Alex) #56

What is so difficult to install Java Runtime Environment, unzipping a zipfile to c:\openhab2 and setting a system variable? It takes less than 30 minutes to get ìt running.

(Andrew Rowe) #57

This coming from a guy who started with which openhab1 version Alex? You made it thru that, you are a smart guy! Reasons win is not so great already above. Link to (what turned out to be unnecessary) Zulu wall of text, worrying about something which it is suggested to put in own directory in the root of the system disk? Really? Yeah down load this and place it in the system disk root and give it a bunch of permissions and ignore ensuing warnings of virus ect ect ect
(I’m being silly here but you get the point)

(Alex) #58

I do not use Zulu. I use Oracle. My virus scanner (Kaspersky) had nothing to complain about. I did not have to grant rights to C:\Openhab2. And if it does, where is the problem? I started with OH2. Does anyone still install OH1?

(Skinah) #59
  1. When ever I start with a new project not just Openhab, I want to know what the developers use as this always means less bugs for me as the code is tested on the hardware they use better than other devices they do not use.

  2. If listing a few recommended devices, I like to see what their limitations are up front. Ie if recommending rasPiX then it should be clear that they only have 1gb of ram and in what types of setups this is not enough. I don’t like having to purchase hardware multiple times, nor do I like setting up openhab multiple times, so knowing what to expect so I can just shell out more money now to save hours of work later on is what I see as important in documentation.

  3. There are some great youtube videos showing step by step how to setup Openhab, perhaps link to them in the documentation.

Since you use the Odroid C2 like I do, have you ever tried my Openhab install script? I find this the easiest way to get one running especially with the RTC option added…

(Andrew Rowe) #60

I’m sorry, I must have mistaken you for another user who had stated they started in openHAB1 version in another thread.
my apologizes