Forum Tag "zwave" = 404 Page not found

@Celaeno1 Can I suggest not to go through and change the tags. There are nearly 3000 messages tagged with zwave - you’re never going to be able to change them all, and in the meantime as you say, this bumps very old messages to the top of the forum which makes it look like they are new posts.

I think this is quite confusing, and previously we were trying to close down old topics rather than bring them to the top of the forum. I appreciate that the tagging not working is a real pain in the backside, but I don’t think changing every post is the answer.

(just my 2c worth :wink: ).

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If it errors only for some people, then an admin should be able to find posts with the “zwave”-tag without error!? But if it’s only fixable by hand, one by one, then it’s probably not a job anyone wants. :grimacing:

If I look at the Advanced Search, it looks like “zwave” is the most occurring tag, after “openhab2”, so it is a somewhat prominent problem:
Screen Shot 2020-05-06 at 09.55.51
Side note: Another bug: The popup window look like there are only 5 tags to choose from (until “items”), because it doesn’t scroll.

It is not a bug. These are the top 5 tags that have been used most often. If you want to search for other tags, you have to type it in.

These 2873 message appear all over the place while browsing the forum for Z-Wave issues, no matter if they are old/new. And my first impression was “Go away, try Google, or give up, because this forum has no information regarding the search term in relation to to Z-Wave”.

I consider this “Page not found” more important than the sorting of those posts.

BUT, as the software seems to be Discourse I googled :wink: for “Discourse tag”, and it comes up with this:


According to that it is possible to manage tags.

I would try to just rename the tag to “zwave1”, only to see if that has some effect (error message, or tag-search working again)…

Then there’s the option to rename the tag - either that gives an option to merge it with the existing “z-wave” tag, but more likely will produce an error “Tag exists already”.

If the latter, a strategy could be to rename “z-wave” to “z-wave-temp”, then rename “zwave” to “z-wave”. IF that works, it would have the advantage to keep way more post tagged with the correct term.

If nothing works, I would just delete the “zwave” tag as it is of no use. It’s better to loose that tag on 2873 messages, than the “Error - No information” it produces.

And one other idea, maybe the “zwave” tag has some issue regarding to this:


If there’s a relation / group / category restriction for the “zwave” tag, it maybe helps to remove / change it temporarily, in case something is wrongly set, or corrupted.

And while at it, there seem to be some junk-tags:
image

Lastly, whoever created the “zwave” tag should be flogged and quartered, to at least get a little justice. :crazy_face: His family shouldn’t be touched, we shouldn’t be too strict. (Error 404 - No generous looking smiley found)

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And probably a related find to the problem:

image

“zwave:serial_zstick” is probably a problem (colon allowed in a tag?).

The preview says there are 5 posts with that tag.
But it brings up only one post with that tag:
image

While it finds 13 other posts with only the “zwave” tag, other tags, or no tags at all.

I remember this tag (“zwave”) was running until beginning of 2019.

Maybe I found the reason. Someone used probably a tag “zwave+” .

Now I found a workaround to find all tags with “zwave”.

Please use this search:

https://community.openhab.org/search?expanded=true&q=tags%3Azwave%2B%20order%3Alatest_topic

For seeing this, please use:

https://community.openhab.org/tag/zwave:serial_zstick

Maybe we should rename it to “zwave_serial_zstick”?

Doing this from the search UI, it produces this link: https://community.openhab.org/search?expanded=true&q=tags%3Azwave%3Aserial_zstick
(Your working link comes from clicking on the tag in the result list.)

Good find with the “zwave+”.

Now there are many approaches to solve the problem.

There are only 197 topics with tag “zwave” AND zero replies!

See here.

https://community.openhab.org/search?expanded=true&q=tags%3Azwave%2B%20status%3Anoreplies%20order%3Alatest_topic

They will appear in “latest” category if modifying them… (we could do 10 of them a day, then in 20 days it will be over…)

WDYT?

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Solving this at the tag-level will probably not modify the posts date. (?)

According to the manual bulk operations are possible.

So…
Renaming the current two tags to something,
then creating a new “z-wave” tag,
then applying that new tag to the two old tags posts,
then deleting the two old tags,
should be possible. And quick & effortless.

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Wow - you got that interpretation from my statement of not changing the tag as it would raise everything up as new posts? :confounded: The forum can be searched, you can use tags, or you can type in the search terms. If you use tags, there is a list of all the tags and you can use these to filter. Obviously you’ve done this as you know how many posts are tagged with zwave. I’m really not sure what you’re issue is here?

Do we really need to manage tags like this? Is it really that hard to navigate the system? Even before the zwave tag stopped working, people used both tags - there is nothing to stop anyone tagging things as they like, and while it’s nice to have everything consistent and eliminate or consolidate tags, do we really need to do that as a group?

I don’t think so personally. The forum is perfectly searchable now and it’s really a pain to go and change everything as everyone gets notified of these changes (I had something like 50 notifications this morning - most were from the renaming of the tags).

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Research how to automatically do this in Discourse and get back to us. I am sure your contribution of a script would be welcomed.

I personally don’t need this to be cleaned up. I now know how to search… (see above)…

But maybe others find it better to do so…

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I do not get your point, and I don’t know why so aggressive (again). I tried to express "Finding information (not running into page not found) is more important than post sorting. MY opinion, nothing more.

You tend to see things from only your perspective, which is Beginner-incompatible.

One of many other perspectives: A user tries to find good software for zWave hardware, has three browser windows open, two competitors. He has never used this forum before, clicks the zwave tag, no information - there are two other windows waiting for him…

If you don’t see why plenty of non-working links on a webpage is not good, I can’t help.

The webpage and the forum is the first face for anyone interested in OpenHab. It should be washed.

If you don’t need working tags as a daily user, that’s very fine. Now I: I would like to use it.

And finally, editing posts is not required, but no one seems to read the manual of the forum software: Forum Tag "zwave" = 404 Page not found

There you will also find who can create tags. I don’t know how forum administration is organized, but probably there shouldn’t be 5 people with the right to create tags…

@Bruce_Osborne: This thread contains in all length what I found. It was said that “None of the forum admins have the knowledge necessary to correct the problem.”, so my contribution was trying to help finding a solution, and I already posted what I think is the solution. I can’t help if you guys over-read given information, and it makes conversation quite exhausting.
My personal impression in this forum is that some people read WAY too fast, or maybe unconsciously selective…

Sorry - I wasn’t being aggressive at all (again). I was simply questioning that you quoted me and then stated that your “impression was I was effectively saying go away and try google” - I’m not sure how you got that impression from my message? Strange and confusing - sorry if that was aggressive. Maybe it is you misinterpreting things (again)?

Sorry - I try to help beginners such as yourself - I spend a LOT of time trying to help beginners. Maybe it’s time for me to stop trying to help?

I’m just not a big fan of rewriting history. The search system in the forum works just fine as it is - the changing of tags won’t really change that. I’m just not a fan of editing history.

Then you should quote the whole context:

That’s not impossible. Especially since english is my very second language. :slight_smile:

Please don’t play that game. We all, including me, appreciate the countless work you put into OH. I can estimate how much effort this is for you, because I spend my free time in some way similar.
Everything else we should probably discuss in private messages, or not. I’m not important here, you are.

Which is probably not required to change.

Any forum user can create tags on their post. Tags are not something that only maintainers or administrators create. You can create new tags when you write a post. Given that OH supports 350 or so different technologies each of which can have more than on reasonable tag, it’s not reasonable to centralize tag creation into one or two individuals.

As far as I can tell, this forum is not set up anything like is described at https://meta.discourse.org/t/a-comprehensive-guide-to-discourse-tags/121041 but as a moderator I can’t see the Settings tag to look around. I’m not sure that renaming the tag would work as, IIRC, it’s the database that’s throwing an error on that one tag and it’s not clear the best way to correct the database.

I agree with Chris, I don’t like the idea of rewriting the tags on those old posts, bringing some of them back to the top of the list in latest and generate add it to the alert queue for each and every user who is watching that thread. Imagine the complaints when hundreds of users come here to ask why they are receiving an email about a post that was made five years ago. Those of us who have been on this forum from the beginning would end up receiving thousands of new notifications.

I would like to see a fix for this problem but it has to be done in a way that is less disruptive. And it will have to be done by an admin.

As for search, I’m not sure that, for this forum, tags were ever intended as a searching mechanism. Experts in certain technologies/parts of OH will subscribe to tags and get alerts when someone creates a post with that tag. If you want to browse around, that’s what categories are for. If you want to search, the search searches the full contents of posts, not just tags. So I’m not sure how this broken tag impacts search at all. It mainly impacts someone who is creating a new post.

I’m not playing any game so I don’t understand your point. I certainly never said that you were not important or that I’m more important - never - so please don’t say that I did! Earlier you stated that my perspective was “beginner incompatible” and I was simply pointing out that I spend a lot of my time here helping beginners.

But it does change history - changing tags is changing what someone did a long time ago. Maybe it’s minor, but changing tags from zwave, or aeonzstick or whatever, that have been mentioned, to be something that you think is easier to search on is (IMHO) not right or appropriate.

Again, everyone has their own view here, and again, I’m not saying that my view is better than yours, or anything like that - I’m simply stating my personal view. I’ll now vacate this discussion.

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