Insteon Confusion Direct Sending of Groups

Hi all,
I’ve been working OH 2.5 for a while now I’ve hit a wall. I have my Insteon system up and running with the latest binding, once configure I was able to add all my devices in Paper UI and create HABPanels. My goal now is to recall Insteon Scenes. I’ve read the binding docs and understand the concept of Groups. Where I fall off is with the defining Things and Items. Up to now, I’ve been able to create everything in paper UI. My question is, can I create the item in paper UI only, or do I need an Items file? If I need an items file, do I need to create a Things file as well as shown in the binding docs, see below? I am concerned that the Bridge is already defined in Paper UI. Lastly, does anyone know the product key for the 2245-222 hub.

Thak you,


I seem to recall there was one feature that paper ui could not configure. Don’t remember which ones but group sounds familiar.

We can see if one of the other guys chimes in but I believe the scenes not setup for paper ui. I had it in some testing notes when I helped test.

Hi Bob,

The issue is that even though paperUI appears to be able to define scenes, it cannot. You will need to create a .things file to define the scenes, because that is where you have to define the group number of each scene you use. The items and everything else can be created in paperUI without a problem. Lastly, you are correct that there is an issue with defining the Bridge in paperUI and using the .things file example provides in the docs. You have to write the .things file differently than the example provided because of this. Below if an example of my .things:

Note, there is no separate “Bridge” line since that is already defined, the “(insteon:network:local)” part of the thing definition connects this thing to my already defined bridge.

Also note, that is you are coming from the 1.x binding or other places many times scenes are defined as hex numbers, but here they are dec.

Thing insteon:device:AABBCC "Insteon - Group Broadcasts" (insteon:network:local) [address="AABBCC", productKey="0x000045"] {
	Type switch : broadcastOnOff#7  "Alloff"
	Type switch : broadcastOnOff#10 "KitrecKitDGrp"
	Type switch : broadcastOnOff#11 "LivingroomKitBGrp"
	Type switch : broadcastOnOff#14 "porchFanLightGrp"
	Type switch : broadcastOnOff#19 "TVModeScene"
	Type switch : broadcastOnOff#21 "ComputerRoomAM"
	Type switch : broadcastOnOff#22 "UpBathAM"
	Type switch : broadcastOnOff#23 "MasterAM"
	Type switch : broadcastOnOff#26 "LeavingScene"
	Type switch : broadcastOnOff#27 "ArrivalScene"
	Type switch : broadcastOnOff#28 "UpstairsOff"
	Type switch : broadcastOnOff#29 "goodnightscene"


Further, I believe you use the productKey 0x000045 for both the hub and the modem, but not 100% sure.

LMK if you need some more help on this. I believe I may be the only one using paperUI with the new binding.

1 Like

The product key works for both. You also need to define the plm (hub contains a plm) and channels as @tommycw10 shows in a .things file. I think I know how this could eventually be done by the ui, but I won’t be getting to it for awhile.

BTW, you can associate items with the channels in the ui, you don’t need to use a .items file.

@tommycw10 @Thedannymullen thank you for the quick reply. I will dive into this and advise on my progress. Great community support. Thank you all.


Hello @tommycw10,
I’ve worked through your example and an issue. In paperUI I get an uninitialized see below.

I tried to add my bridge in the selection box, but it won’t take it. I get ERROR 409 -Conflict.

My things file:

Thing insteon:device:4A92AF “Insteon - Group Broadcasts” (insteon:network:local) [address=“4A.92.AF”, productKey=“0x000045”] {
Type switch : broadcastOnOff#9 “DinnerParty”

I’ve created a switch in paperUI. When I click it, I get the following in the log:
2020-07-22 20:32:31.607 [ome.event.ItemCommandEvent] - Item ‘insteon_device_4A92AF_broadcastOnOff_9’ received command ON

2020-07-22 20:32:31.610 [nt.ItemStatePredictedEvent] - insteon_device_4A92AF_broadcastOnOff_9 predicted to become NULL

2020-07-22 20:32:37.264 [vent.ItemStateChangedEvent] - insteon_device_31D6C4_lastHeardFrom changed from 2020-07-22T20:28:27.198-0400 to 2020-07-22T20:32:37.246-0400

Can you take a quick look? I think it has something to do with the thing definition, but just can’t figure it out.

Thank you,


Can you post a screenshot of your bridge configuration?

What do you get from the console commands smarthome:insteon display_devices and smarthome:insteon display_channels?

Hello Tom,
Here is my binding information:

Thank you,


Comment only

That’s expected when the associated Thing is offline, uninitialized. openHAB knows the command won’t work.

Your openhab.log should have earlier messages from the binding about its attempt to initialize the Thing/Bridge

@ranielsen Here is what I get:

Display Channels
insteon:device:26B61C:beep feature = beep parameters = {}
insteon:device:26B61C:dimmer feature = dimmer parameters = {}
insteon:device:26B61C:fastOnOff feature = fastonoff parameters = {}
insteon:device:26B61C:lastHeardFrom feature = lastheardfrom parameters = {}
insteon:device:26B61C:ledOnOff feature = ledonoff parameters = {}
insteon:device:26B61C:manualChange feature = manualchange parameters = {}
insteon:device:31D6C4:batteryLevel feature = data parameters = {field=battery_level}
insteon:device:31D6C4:contact feature = contact parameters = {}
insteon:device:31D6C4:lastHeardFrom feature = lastheardfrom parameters = {}
insteon:device:31D6C4:lightLevel feature = data parameters = {field=light_level}
insteon:device:31D6C4:lightLevelAboveThreshold feature = lightlevelabovethreshold parameters = {}
insteon:device:31D6C4:lowBattery feature = lowbattery parameters = {}
insteon:device:3CF6C0:beep feature = beep parameters = {}
insteon:device:3CF6C0:dimmer feature = dimmer parameters = {}
insteon:device:3CF6C0:fastOnOff feature = fastonoff parameters = {}
insteon:device:3CF6C0:lastHeardFrom feature = lastheardfrom parameters = {}
insteon:device:3CF6C0:ledBrightness feature = ledbrightness parameters = {}
insteon:device:3CF6C0:ledOnOff feature = ledonoff parameters = {}
insteon:device:3CF6C0:manualChange feature = manualchange parameters = {}
insteon:device:3CF6C0:onLevel feature = onlevel parameters = {}
insteon:device:3CF6C0:rampRate feature = ramprate parameters = {}
insteon:device:3FF4AC:contact feature = contact parameters = {}
insteon:device:3FF4AC:lastHeardFrom feature = lastheardfrom parameters = {}
insteon:device:4AE52D:beep feature = beep parameters = {}
insteon:device:4AE52D:dimmer feature = dimmer parameters = {}
insteon:device:4AE52D:fastOnOff feature = fastonoff parameters = {}
insteon:device:4AE52D:lastHeardFrom feature = lastheardfrom parameters = {}
insteon:device:4AE52D:ledBrightness feature = ledbrightness parameters = {}
insteon:device:4AE52D:ledOnOff feature = ledonoff parameters = {}
insteon:device:4AE52D:manualChange feature = manualchange parameters = {}
insteon:device:4AE52D:onLevel feature = onlevel parameters = {}
insteon:device:4AE52D:rampRate feature = ramprate parameters = {}
insteon:device:4AF1D5:beep feature = beep parameters = {}
insteon:device:4AF1D5:dimmer feature = dimmer parameters = {}
insteon:device:4AF1D5:fastOnOff feature = fastonoff parameters = {}
insteon:device:4AF1D5:lastHeardFrom feature = lastheardfrom parameters = {}
insteon:device:4AF1D5:ledBrightness feature = ledbrightness parameters = {}
insteon:device:4AF1D5:ledOnOff feature = ledonoff parameters = {}
insteon:device:4AF1D5:manualChange feature = manualchange parameters = {}
insteon:device:4AF1D5:onLevel feature = onlevel parameters = {}
insteon:device:4AF1D5:rampRate feature = ramprate parameters = {}
insteon:device:4F7ADD:beep feature = beep parameters = {}
insteon:device:4F7ADD:dimmer feature = dimmer parameters = {}
insteon:device:4F7ADD:fastOnOff feature = fastonoff parameters = {}
insteon:device:4F7ADD:lastHeardFrom feature = lastheardfrom parameters = {}
insteon:device:4F7ADD:ledBrightness feature = ledbrightness parameters = {}
insteon:device:4F7ADD:ledOnOff feature = ledonoff parameters = {}
insteon:device:4F7ADD:manualChange feature = manualchange parameters = {}
insteon:device:4F7ADD:onLevel feature = onlevel parameters = {}
insteon:device:4F7ADD:rampRate feature = ramprate parameters = {}
insteon:device:4FC447:beep feature = beep parameters = {}
insteon:device:4FC447:dimmer feature = dimmer parameters = {}
insteon:device:4FC447:fastOnOff feature = fastonoff parameters = {}
insteon:device:4FC447:lastHeardFrom feature = lastheardfrom parameters = {}
insteon:device:4FC447:ledBrightness feature = ledbrightness parameters = {}
insteon:device:4FC447:ledOnOff feature = ledonoff parameters = {}
insteon:device:4FC447:manualChange feature = manualchange parameters = {}
insteon:device:4FC447:onLevel feature = onlevel parameters = {}
insteon:device:4FC447:rampRate feature = ramprate parameters = {}
insteon:device:4FC493:beep feature = beep parameters = {}
insteon:device:4FC493:dimmer feature = dimmer parameters = {}
insteon:device:4FC493:fastOnOff feature = fastonoff parameters = {}
insteon:device:4FC493:lastHeardFrom feature = lastheardfrom parameters = {}
insteon:device:4FC493:ledBrightness feature = ledbrightness parameters = {}
insteon:device:4FC493:ledOnOff feature = ledonoff parameters = {}
insteon:device:4FC493:manualChange feature = manualchange parameters = {}
insteon:device:4FC493:onLevel feature = onlevel parameters = {}
insteon:device:4FC493:rampRate feature = ramprate parameters = {}
insteon:device:4FC7CE:beep feature = beep parameters = {}
insteon:device:4FC7CE:dimmer feature = dimmer parameters = {}
insteon:device:4FC7CE:fastOnOff feature = fastonoff parameters = {}
insteon:device:4FC7CE:lastHeardFrom feature = lastheardfrom parameters = {}
insteon:device:4FC7CE:ledBrightness feature = ledbrightness parameters = {}
insteon:device:4FC7CE:ledOnOff feature = ledonoff parameters = {}
insteon:device:4FC7CE:manualChange feature = manualchange parameters = {}
insteon:device:4FC7CE:onLevel feature = onlevel parameters = {}
insteon:device:4FC7CE:rampRate feature = ramprate parameters = {}
insteon:device:538E0F:beep feature = beep parameters = {}
insteon:device:538E0F:dimmer feature = dimmer parameters = {}
insteon:device:538E0F:fastOnOff feature = fastonoff parameters = {}
insteon:device:538E0F:lastHeardFrom feature = lastheardfrom parameters = {}
insteon:device:538E0F:ledBrightness feature = ledbrightness parameters = {}
insteon:device:538E0F:ledOnOff feature = ledonoff parameters = {}
insteon:device:538E0F:manualChange feature = manualchange parameters = {}
insteon:device:538E0F:onLevel feature = onlevel parameters = {}
insteon:device:538E0F:rampRate feature = ramprate parameters = {}
insteon:device:5415D1:beep feature = beep parameters = {}
insteon:device:5415D1:fastOnOff feature = fastonoff parameters = {}
insteon:device:5415D1:fastOnOffButtonB feature = fastonoffbuttonb parameters = {}
insteon:device:5415D1:fastOnOffButtonC feature = fastonoffbuttonc parameters = {}
insteon:device:5415D1:fastOnOffButtonD feature = fastonoffbuttond parameters = {}
insteon:device:5415D1:fastOnOffButtonE feature = fastonoffbuttone parameters = {}
insteon:device:5415D1:fastOnOffButtonF feature = fastonoffbuttonf parameters = {}
insteon:device:5415D1:fastOnOffButtonG feature = fastonoffbuttong parameters = {}
insteon:device:5415D1:fastOnOffButtonH feature = fastonoffbuttonh parameters = {}
insteon:device:5415D1:keypadButtonB feature = keypadbuttonb parameters = {}
insteon:device:5415D1:keypadButtonC feature = keypadbuttonc parameters = {}
insteon:device:5415D1:keypadButtonD feature = keypadbuttond parameters = {}
insteon:device:5415D1:keypadButtonE feature = keypadbuttone parameters = {}
insteon:device:5415D1:keypadButtonF feature = keypadbuttonf parameters = {}
insteon:device:5415D1:keypadButtonG feature = keypadbuttong parameters = {}
insteon:device:5415D1:keypadButtonH feature = keypadbuttonh parameters = {}
insteon:device:5415D1:lastHeardFrom feature = lastheardfrom parameters = {}
insteon:device:5415D1:ledBrightness feature = ledbrightness parameters = {}
insteon:device:5415D1:ledOnOff feature = ledonoff parameters = {}
insteon:device:5415D1:loadDimmer feature = loaddimmer parameters = {}
insteon:device:5415D1:manualChange feature = manualchange parameters = {}
insteon:device:5415D1:manualChangeButtonB feature = manualchangebuttonb parameters = {}
insteon:device:5415D1:manualChangeButtonC feature = manualchangebuttonc parameters = {}
insteon:device:5415D1:manualChangeButtonD feature = manualchangebuttond parameters = {}
insteon:device:5415D1:manualChangeButtonE feature = manualchangebuttone parameters = {}
insteon:device:5415D1:manualChangeButtonF feature = manualchangebuttonf parameters = {}
insteon:device:5415D1:manualChangeButtonG feature = manualchangebuttong parameters = {}
insteon:device:5415D1:manualChangeButtonH feature = manualchangebuttonh parameters = {}
insteon:device:5415D1:onLevel feature = onlevel parameters = {}
insteon:device:5415D1:rampDimmer feature = rampdimmer parameters = {}
insteon:device:5415D1:rampRate feature = ramprate parameters = {}

Display devices:

insteon:device:26B61C address = 26.B6.1C productKey = F00.00.19 channels = beep, fastOnOff, lastHeardFrom, ledOnOff, dimmer, manualChange
insteon:device:31D6C4 address = 31.D6.C4 productKey = 0x00004A channels = contact, lastHeardFrom, lowBattery, batteryLevel, lightLevel, lightLevelAboveThreshold
insteon:device:3CF6C0 address = 3C.F6.C0 productKey = F00.00.01 channels = beep, onLevel, fastOnOff, ledBrightness, lastHeardFrom, ledOnOff, rampRate, dimmer, manualChange
insteon:device:3FF4AC address = 3F.F4.AC productKey = F00.00.0A channels = contact, lastHeardFrom
insteon:device:4AE52D address = 4A.E5.2D productKey = F00.00.01 channels = beep, onLevel, fastOnOff, ledBrightness, lastHeardFrom, ledOnOff, rampRate, dimmer, manualChange
insteon:device:4AF1D5 address = 4A.F1.D5 productKey = F00.00.01 channels = beep, onLevel, fastOnOff, ledBrightness, lastHeardFrom, ledOnOff, rampRate, dimmer, manualChange
insteon:device:4F7ADD address = 4F.7A.DD productKey = F00.00.01 channels = beep, onLevel, fastOnOff, ledBrightness, lastHeardFrom, ledOnOff, rampRate, dimmer, manualChange
insteon:device:4FC447 address = 4F.C4.47 productKey = F00.00.01 channels = beep, onLevel, fastOnOff, ledBrightness, lastHeardFrom, ledOnOff, rampRate, dimmer, manualChange
insteon:device:4FC493 address = 4F.C4.93 productKey = F00.00.01 channels = beep, onLevel, fastOnOff, ledBrightness, lastHeardFrom, ledOnOff, rampRate, dimmer, manualChange
insteon:device:4FC7CE address = 4F.C7.CE productKey = F00.00.01 channels = beep, onLevel, fastOnOff, ledBrightness, lastHeardFrom, ledOnOff, rampRate, dimmer, manualChange
insteon:device:538E0F address = 53.8E.0F productKey = F00.00.01 channels = beep, onLevel, fastOnOff, ledBrightness, lastHeardFrom, ledOnOff, rampRate, dimmer, manualChange
insteon:device:5415D1 address = 54.15.D1 productKey = F00.00.16 channels = beep, onLevel, fastOnOffButtonD, fastOnOffButtonE, fastOnOffButtonB, fastOnOffButtonC, manualChangeButtonE, manualChangeButtonD, manualChangeButtonG, manualChangeButtonF, manualChangeButtonC, manualChangeButtonB, fastOnOff, ledBrightness, lastHeardFrom, loadDimmer, manualChangeButtonH, fastOnOffButtonH, fastOnOffButtonF, fastOnOffButtonG, ledOnOff, rampRate, rampDimmer, keypadButtonD, keypadButtonE, keypadButtonB, keypadButtonC, manualChange, keypadButtonH, keypadButtonF, keypadButtonG

I don’t see the the hub nor the broadcast channel that you defined. You’ll need to define your hub in the .things file, like the documentation shows. Try using the same name for the bridge

Bridge insteon:network:8c10ae6f [port = ""] {
    Thing device ...

So - what I think is going on is this:

You have your bridge defined in paperUI as this:


In your .things file you created off of my example, you have your Thing connected to this bridge:


Mine is defined in paperUI as insteon:network:local, so that is why my example shows it this way and it works for me, but doesn’t work for you. Also, you cannot change this in paperUI as it is already defined in your .things file (as I think you suggested that you tried). I would suggest editing your .things file and change




@Bob_Barbagallo, I’m going to modify the binding to always add the modem for the PLM and hub to the ui inbox if it’s not previously defined. This should be implemented in the next week or so. Longer term, I’m going to add a way to configure the hub to add in the broadcast channels without needing a .things file.

@tommycw10 updating my things file with (insteon:network:8c10ae6f) worked thank you. One thing to note, the 8c10ae6f is case sensitive. The first go I cut/pasted from your response and the capital “C” did not work ;). I will be testing some more. I was able to find the group numbers for the scenes in the Insteon app. Thank you very much for this.


@ranielsen Thank you, I used Tom’s solution and it works. The switch works in HABPanel to recall my scenes via the groups. The recall is instantaneous, however, the update on the sliders in HABPanel lags. I believe this is a known issue. Thank you for your support and great Binding.



Sounds great. I will be looking for the announcement.

Stay safe!


Good news, you can fix the lag with the use of the related keyword.

Excellent tip. I will give it a try. Cheers. Be safe.