IR commands with some sort of "communicate-back-channel"?

Hardware Home Automation
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1

Hey guys,
i am still trying to get my air conditioner working with openhab. The AC itsself is an old model (Daikin FT35GZV1NB) with an IR Remote (ARC417A1). I tried several IR Blasters (Broadlink RM3 and RM4 as well as harmony hub) which seem to be able to send a simple “power on” signal (at least the harmony) but not anything else.
It looks like the original remote device not only sends an “power on” command but is able to detect the state of the AC as well as send the neccessary commands to put it to that specific state (tempereature, fan speed etc.). For that this remote would need some sort of two way communication although i always thought IR is a one way ticket.

My question is simple, the answer probably not:
Do “two way IR remotes” even exist and if so, does anyone have a device suggestion which has a binding usable with OH2?

Thanks for your thougts!
Bastian

2

I doubt that it is a two way IR remote control.
The IR back channel always needs to reach the remote control when it acts as a receiver.
In such case it most probably would be a RF or bluetooth connection.
To check if it is the ari conditioner sends IR signals you can try to use your smartphones’ camera.
The camera is able to make IR signals visible.

3

If so, my Logitech Harmony remote wouldnt be able to power off the AC as its IR only, isnt it? And if its a RF how does that help to solve my problem?

4

I do not think there is two-way communication.

previous discussion

5

Hi Bastian,

Have you tried with any IR-MQTT IR (blaster) bridge, with OpenMQTTGateway or Tasmota? These should definitely show you any signals which get send when operating the remote, which you can then reprpduce with said bridges and MQTT.

I’ve just done the same with my Trotec AC with OpenMQTTGateway flashed onto a cheap IR blaster remote, as described here

which has a great range, or alternatively a selfmade IR transceiver

https://docs.openmqttgateway.com/setitup/ir.html

which are usually limited to a more modest operating distance.

The only binding needed is the MQTT binding, not a special IR remote binding or any preconfigured IR commands - which I also couldn’t find for my AC anywhere.

6

a lot of input, thanks for that. I tried a Broadlink RM3 Mini already but wasnt able to reverse the IR Codes due to a common problem with chinese Formware version…
I will test the options oyu guys gave me and give a feedback.

I twould help to know if my AC is using IR or RF commands. the smartphone cam didnt help too much with that. Any other way?

7

Really? You could put a bit of black tape over the LED on the remote, or over the window on the AC unit. Tape does not stop radio signals.

8

oh boy, you´r right. I have got an IR remote. I am still confused why for example the harmony hub states that it isnt able to change the state of the AC but is only able to power on or off… if its simple IR commands?

9

Whatever you are using to capture and simulate the “real” IR commands has to understand the signalling system being used. They’re not all alike, Imagine trying to capture a cyrillic message with a regular set of Scrabble tiles. There are hints in those “Daikin decoded” articles that Daikin use something a little unusual.

10

I’d be a bit wary with the black tape test though, as black plastic/tape very often can be translucent for infrared - as seen with a lot of IR windows on remotes and receivers being covered by black screens. Even the IR blaster I linked to above is totally made from black plastic, which houses the IR LEDs.

That’s why I found the best solution for my similar problem to be a generic IR-MQTT bridge. Instead of trying to decrypt the protocol, I just recorded the full commands which showed up when choosing different options on the remote for the AC. Then just replay them in full whenever I want said functionalities to be triggered. So with @rossko57 words - no need to learn the Cyrillic alphabet, just throw the Cyrillic letters at the AC :wink:

The list of the IR library included in the OpenMQTTGateway already seems to have several Daikin devices included, not the specific ones mentioned here though. But very likely that the direct raw commands will be seen and can be recorded for @Bastian_H’s AC as well.

11

I tried the Broadlink RM3 Mini and RM4 Mini, both withouth successs due to chinese firmware on the first and unsupportive RM Bridge for the second. I will give the RM4 pro a chance and if necessary the harmony hub…
The MQTT Bridge seems the best shot for me atm and i will try it shortly. In best case the linked supported protocols will work…

12

i have an old Daikin AC (remote ARC470A16) which i managed to use with Openhab and IR control.

  • The daikin AC remotes are NOT two way. They are simple IR remotes. But they send a complex signal (extra length as compared to, say, an LG remote).
  • When we use the IR remote, we are changing only one parameter at a time (like up or down the temperature, change the mode one at a time, change the swing position or mode one at a time etc.)
  • Every command sent is a combination of the full state of the AC - like on, off, temperature, swing position, AC mode (cool, dry etc).
  • Hence, the only way to control these ACs is to ‘replay’ the signal for the desired state of the AC.
  • So what i have done is captured IR codes that replay the entire state. I have 4 combination of IR codes at the moment (on, off, temp 24+slow fan+swing on, temp 21+high fan+swing in lowest position); These correspond to On, Off, Normal and High modes in Openhab (just custom states)
  • To record the IR codes from a Daikin AC, i used an IR receiver, hooked to my Raspberry PI 2.
  • To play the IR codes, i have an IR Led also hooked up to my Raspberry PI 2 (yes!).
  • I dont use LIRC for this. I use a lesser known library called PGPIO.
  • They have a daemon that runs on linux. It just takes as input a combination of the codes. Example, the below can be put into a plain text file and used with the irrp.py script. Instructions here [search for ‘IR Record and Playback’]. This code below sends signal to set the AC to 24 degrees celsius, swing oscillation on and fan at low.
  • If you notice the number ‘29985’, it seems to indicate a break in the IR transmission, meaning the whole code is comprised of atleast 2 parts, maybe 3 but not sure.
  • the same sricpt linked above can be used to record the code and dump into a file that can be used to replay it too as below. The script can be called from openhab using the exec binding.
  • I dont know if this method will work for the IR setup you have, but it may help.

"TEMP_24_OSC_ON_FAN_LOW":[3477,1720,446,1289,445,422,434,437,434,421,452,1293,443,424,439,429,448,418,472,392,456,1295,438,425,489,1249,445,1293,447,420,443,1296,447,1295,445,1295,439,1293,441,1302,441,419,440,430,444,1295,447,421,443,417,446,421,451,417,452,417,452,416,446,1303,435,1300,431,1318,415,1301,436,426,447,417,451,424,496,373,440,422,445,420,442,424,444,428,448,415,447,416,512,358,451,428,435,417,444,421,452,420,445,420,468,403,434,439,435,417,449,426,497,377,497,358,507,366,443,423,445,425,438,1354,384,427,443,431,440,419,441,457,420,419,458,406,452,29985,3484,1724,435,1294,438,421,509,362,452,412,464,1293,435,416,442,426,453,454,401,428,448,1294,460,402,502,1314,370,1292,442,417,440,1299,442,1300,429,1355,391,1296,466,1267,440,423,449,422,438,1305,444,416,450,420,449,421,438,420,451,417,444,445,425,415,500,339,531,376,442,421,451,420,452,409,452,416,442,425,453,415,451,418,453,413,510,380,429,1296,438,417,497,374,444,475,397,1294,436,1300,439,416,497,407,472,361,439,426,452,423,497,362,515,1238,485,1247,442,435,429,421,443,418,477,392,519,352,482,380,445,424,495,375,443,427,497,361,467,1274,443,1297,443,1293,438,1305,434,1302,450,1283,436,426,445,414,441,429,446,426,498,361,452,420,450,418,447,426,447,417,445,418,453,416,440,422,502,369,444,421,446,425,440,492,381,420,444,426,442,428,500,361,502,365,438,436,444,428,428,426,457,411,452,417,560,309,493,381,438,431,445,416,442,431,463,399,498,366,506,366,444,420,460,408,442,425,450,414,445,488,430,377,445,418,502,367,451,419,441,425,504,364,446,424,437,449,425,422,501,370,456,414,497,364,437,1308,431,428,449,414,451,419,453,416,442,1297,441,1295,441,468,399,423,444,419,453,419,483,418,413,431,430,427,445,425,450,413,458,412,450,418,457,415,506,351,456,415,496,410,407,421,447,422,443,429,445,1290,440,417,450,1296,437,1296,442,1300,472,388,451]

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13

@candiesdoodle thanks for this immense info, they helped me quite a lot to understand the “specialities” of the Daikin remote. I will test if the codes are the same for me.

A little update though: while Broadlink RM3 and RM4 Mini werent able to reproduce the IR codes of my original remote the RM 4 pro is able to do so. My plan is now to generate several IR codes that switch on/off directly into the desired state of every function (fan, temperature, swing etc…).

Just a new question about that: Do oyu guys have an idea to get some sort of information on current state of the device? For temperature i could imagine setting up a temperature sensor right in front of the AC as well as for humidity. But i have no idea on how to check if the device is on or off (2 power lines go into it, so a shelly or other power meter wont work i guess) as well as the fan mode… Any idea about that?

1 Like
14

I am sorry, questions you posed regarding detecting temperature and other settings, is beyond my capabilities :slight_smile: I just think its too much effort as against the benefits, in my case. But will be happy to know how you managed to do it, if at all and when. good luck.

15

i fear that, too :slight_smile:

16

You seem to be wanting to reproduce stuff the Daikin unit does for itself. It might make more sense to get an interface option. I know the commercial units offer a Modbus option.

17

Not sure what you are referring to, but if you mean the WiFi Modules: they arent compatible with my old AC.

18

Stumbled upon this. Looks very promising for older daikin remotes

Going to try it out soon