I am getting ready to put in a Zooz ZWave swith in a 3-way switch circuit.
Unlike many other brands, you only need one and can use one of the existing 3-way switches.
For smart switches, you usually need hot & neutral wires in the switch box.
Not wanting to start an argument but I don’t see someone turning off a wall switch as a failure case. It might not matter that much if it’s not a rocker or toggle switch but a push-switch (all ours are like that).
If someone presses the switch and nothing happens, they just press it again.
If a smart light bulb fails, my wife, for example, could just change the bulb (for another smart bulb or indeed any bulb) and we’ve got light again.
If a smart switch fails, we’ve got no light and there’s no way she’s going to start messing about with potentially live wires and modules hidden behind switch boxes.
Having written all that, I do agree that from a cost perspective, it’s cheaper to fix or replace one smart switch rather than a load of smart bulbs on the same circuit.
A failure case is any time your system enters a state where it has degraded capability.
With that definition, removing power from a smart light bulb with a “dumb” switch means you can no longer control that smart bulb until someone physically resupplies power to the bulb (press the button, flip the switch, etc). openHAB can’t control it. The Hue app can’t control it. No other home automation can control it until power is restored.
This is a degraded state. Therefore it is a failure state. The smart bulb is offline and uncontrollable until power is restored to the bulb.
There is a near infinity of ways a home automation system can enter a failure state. The fact that something broke is only a tiny percentage of them. But since you went there, light bulbs have on average far shorter useful lives than switches. LEDs last far longer than incandescent or CF bulbs, but no where near as long as solid state relays and integrated circuits.
@rlkoshak I believe you need to define, what a smart switch is… (I cant tell what it is).
If it´s what I think it is, the failure will be the same for the bulb or for the switch, if power fail.
It´s important to understand, there isn´t such a thing as a fail safe device. One way or another, everything can fail. But one can limit the chances of fails, by using devices which makes it more safe. I believe this is the advantage of the smart switch you were refering to, right?
And I agree - More failures can happen with a bulb than with a switch. But a wired switch is even more safer than a wireless smart switch. Infact, staying away from smart home at all, would make it alot more safer 
EDIT…
A way to make things a little more safe, is using devices like haseman´s DIN rail z-wave devices. They support both z-wave and wired switches at the same time. So if zwave for some reason fail, one can still controle the device from a wired switch.
http://store.zwavecenter.com/index.php?route=product/manufacturer/info&manufacturer_id=27
Here is the smart switch I bought. They have dimmer models too.
My definition is the switch MUST be able to tell Openhab when asked if the switch is on or off AND also be able to be controlled by Openhab.
That’s a little harsh. The Milight globes do work well BUT their is an achilleas heal in their design that you MUST consider. This is to sync and unsync the globes Milight stupidly choose to use power on and power off commands which are very common to be sent in the air with an automation system. If someone turns the globes on with any type of power switch right as Openhab is sending an power on command then the globe will sync to the message and now multiple lights will be controlled by the same set of controls.
So Milight works 100% local and it is rock solid with the ESP8266 opensource bridge and the globes are very cheap. You can have full colour for not much more than a dumb globe and this is why I purchased them. The ability to change the colour temperature of the white makes them worth it alone if you decide to stop automating the globes and move to smart switches as the ON and OFF control which would work around the achilleas heal.
Not sure what the other smart globes are like but Phillips hue has a potential issue which is described here in this post…
A smart switch is over you can control through OH. It’s constantly powered by maybe power. A house guest can’t accidentally turn off the power to the switch, short of flipping the circuit breaker.
That’s the distinction. You can accidentally remove power from a smart bulb by flipping the switch on the wall, which of the perfectly natural and intuitive way to turn off a light in a non-smart house. But with smart bulbs, that means the only way to turn the light back on if by physically doing so at the switch.
With a smart switch, even if someone manually flips it off, you can still turn the light back on through OH. That isn’t the case with smart bulbs.
Welcome to the forum, Kardos!
I’d like to affirm the recommendation for Z-Wave. Yes it’s expensive stuff ($40-$60 per light) but it does what you want.
Look at this one, for example:
I don’t have a ton of experience with it, but I bought one, tested it with this non-smart dimmable bulb and was happy and confident enough that I ordered another fifteen of those modules. They’re still in their boxes because just like yours, my house is also being built.
So, does what you want? Yeah. Z-Wave is in no way connected to the cloud, except through openhab (if you want). Local control with a standard switch is a breeze, because z-wave modules have switch inputs!
In fact… when I first moved into this newly built house last year (also a self-built on the same plot as the main house currently being built), I had my electricians install Z-Wave modules into the walls
before I even had my controller up and running! They’ll work just fine that way.
If it’s too much money to begin with, they’re easy to retrofit and install over time.
One thing to note though:
Make sure your electrician runs a neutral wire to each wall switch box. The Z-Wave module needs both hot and neutral to function. As long as you have that, you (assuming you feel qualified) can easily put a Z-Wave module in later.
Surely the distinction which is important is that with a smart switch you are describing, it still ‘appears’ to work as a mechanical ON/OFF switch when the home automation system is not working for any reason (crash, no power, board failure etc).
In that case, I concur that yes, a smart switch is better than a smart bulb.
But shouldn´t a smart switch work without openhab as well?
You can risc the same for your openhab/smart home, and the result will be the same, as if you turn off a smart bulb… Thats my point in this.
Btw… It´s quite easy to rebuild a switch, so you can´t turn off a smart bulb like Philips Hue… At least in Denmark it´s very easy as we´re not having the neutral wire in our switches. But I do not recommend it unless you have made something else, which is working as stable as a wired switch.
I understand what you´re saying, but I dont agree that the way is anything different than a smart bulb as I believe its the same in both situations.
It all comes down to, setting up a system with the main question: What if…
What if openhab/smart switch fails? Can you still control the smart bulb/the smart light? Well probably, from a (stupid) app. Next question is, does everyone in the house know how to deal with a situation like this… Answer - maybe, it depence. A child may not be able to do it, Wife perhaps…
Several years ago when I started using Philips Hue bulbs, I rebuild my wall switches by inserting a small spring in the pad… This way is normal way to rebuild a normal momentary switch into a push-button. This means, that even though my children pushed the button, it will return back as soon as they release it. And the Hue bulb will be powered all the time.
I know, thats nothing to do with openhab/smarthome systems, but it´s a way to avoid troubble from someone flipping/turning off the power to a smart bulb.
Hello everyone,
Thanks for the great comments and the help. It is much appreciated!
First I’d like to thanks you all that you are so helpfull, it is really a great community here
I’ve been thinking on this think for a few days now, and I’ve decided to let the color bulbs go…
I’ll just stick with a normal cool white dimming ones controlled by a smart switch.
I’ve ran through the smart color+dimmer bulbs and smart switch / “not smart” switch + shelly relay option, but that would cost too much so install.
I’ve been looking at Sonoff dimmer switches with a normal dimming bulbs, so that was if I install tasmota on the Sonoff switches I can control then from OH. I can also use the on/off function if OH has a downtime, and via this smart switch I don’t have to push the switch to ON to control the bulbs from OH. (If I’m right…, am I? :))
The only thing what bothers me is that sonoff only has a 1 gang dimmer switch, and I’d really like to have a 2 or 3 gang dimmer switches. I was able to find some other brands on the net, but those are really ugly…
I assume that if I only install a normal 1-2-3 gang smart wifi Sonoff switch without phisical dimming button on it, I won’t be able to the the dimming bulbs from OH either. Am I right? I mean except the switch is a normal wifi switch not a dimmer one but the bulbs are I won’t be able to use the dimmer function on the bulbs.
Also I have no idea how to solve the problem with the 1 gang dimmer switch as an alternative wall switch. I mean I’ll have 2 switched on the opposite side of the room to control the same lights. I can solve this problem with a standard alternative wall switch, but I’m not sure if this can be achieved with a smart/1 gang model.
I fail to see how my comment indicated otherwise.
How would a switch be able to tell Openhab it was currently OFF if it was not working all the time and never powered down? If Openhab reboots you do not know if the button was pushed whilst the server was rebooting if it can not report back its current state.
If a switch only tells Openhab when it is changing state and cannot be asked at any time, then I consider it only half smart. This is just my opinion.
It would be great to see a comparison of different smart globes and switches and to learn the true issues that they present when used in a large fully automated home.
It didnt. Just wanted to be sure.
Thats why I would suggest having a relay or something simular indicating the state of a switch (or latest state, if it´s an push-button). It makes things so much more easier to work with.
Is this a 4 gang one?
This is where “complex” systems like KNX come into play, really. The point is that it is a system, rather than a collection of independent units.
An alternative approach to multiple controls; one control location is the “master” which allows manual control but also has the capability to be controlled by OH. (A Sonoff dimmer for example)
The other control location is just a wallplate, with no direct infuence on the end device. It just reports to OH and OH does the thing to other dimmer.
In the event of “system” problems, you lose the remote control but can still turn the lights on.
These are difficult decisions to make.
With a new build, you should seriously consider wired solutions. Of course there are two approaches to that as well 
Run all power cable - feeds to ceiling lights, cables to wallplates - back to a central cabinet. Here lives the active gubbins, dimmers etc. See DIN mount Sonoffs and so on. Choice of tech, reconfigurable.
Alternatively, run Cat5 signal cable to control and consumption points to control remotely mounted units. Again choice of tech, flexible.
A combination approach is also feasible.
Yeah, I’ve thought about master/slave wall mounts, maybe that is the way I’ll go.
KNX hardwares are like super expensive to me, I’ve just checked one relay switch which is like 300euros.
I’ll need like 10-14 wall switches, not to mention the other HW that would be used. In total 5000euros won’t cover the costs.
I’ll check on wired solution too. It seems interesting as an option to be used. Especially when my house is just getting built and i will have all the options for wiring etc.
So to talk about wired solution: So I can imagine how this thing will work…
Now I have a basic idea about wifi/zigbee/wzave products, but UTP wired wall switches bulbs? I’ve only seen a post about utp power feeded wall switch, so you won’t have to play with high voltage power… or is that an another thing? Enlighten me pls 
Hey,
maybe you should read this Topic:
There are the same requirements as here:
Wired
Works without OH or Internet
Dump Switches (same switch manufacturer as your outlets)
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I have a wired solution in my house… It´s called IHC. I cant find any english description of it ufortunatly. In short the concept is nearly the same as KNX, beside IHC got a specific controller (computer) where all the logic is located. And its prefered centralized setup.
I also have a small test setup of Velbus… It´s very powerfull, and for people in europe, I would suggest looking at Velbus system… https://www.velbus.eu
@MDAR is a great guy to advice you on this system. My experience is not that strong, yet. But I´m getting there 
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Thanks Kim.
It’s great to know that you’re having success with the Velbus kit.
@Kardiii
This post might give you some insights into the whole debate between wired and wireless.
Right at the bottom is a link to an example wired system.
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