Serious 2.5 Release issues. How to troubleshoot?

That’s normal. When installing/uninstalling bindings they all restart. I don’t remember when I first saw this but it should cause any real problems. Everything comes back once the binding is installed/uninstalled, right?

No, cause I wouldnt know which binding to install like that… The issue seems to hit several bindings.

Normal ? It didn´t happen in openhab 2.5M2, thats for sure.
Yes, everything comes back to normal again. But as the video show, it takes several minutes. That I cant believe is suppose to happen.

Then my suggestion is to file an issue. Though at this point I wouldn’t expect it to get fixed for 2.5 but it would be good to capture it for 3.0. See How to file an Issue.

I don’t install/uninstall bindings all that often but I do have memories of bindings resetting every time I installed/uninstalled a new addon.

I will. But I would prefere I´ve had some more info rather than just this video. Thats why I´d ask in first message, how to troubleshoot this one.

I have not seen others mention this before.
I tend to try/test stuff alot. Specially when I have updated openhab, og done some simular “major” changes. I still have a few issues which I have never gotten to work properly, which is why I test it again, when I have made changes.
This time I was trying the WMBus binding (for god know what reason- It simply wont work). But it wouldn´t work at all. Then I recall something about it needed the serial driver, which will be installed when I install the Zigbee binding. Thats how I discovered this issue showen above.

I always keep the tail log open when I make changes to anything around openhab. This way I know whats going on, if I make mistakes or something goes wrong.
As you noticed yourself, lots is going on, on my system. Unfortunatly I cant filter in tail log, (at least not so it makes sense in this case). I sure would have prefered an option to turn on/off logging for a (or several) specific binding(s). But as far as I know, this is not possible. If you are aware of this, I sure would like to know. I believe this could be a ‘nice to have’ option for many. I could turn to the physical logfile. But I would have to filter each entry manually. In this case it would be hundreds of lines.

A side note!
In general, I have a feeling there are something weird going on in Openhab. I have had several cases like the above which others dont seem to have. And the only differences I can think of is that no others are running openhab like I do. Perhaps I simply have to much going on which the combination of openhab/Rpi3B+ cant handle.
I do have lots going on allright. I do use USB serials alot as well. But I dont think it´s a lack of resources in the Rpi, but rather some unapropiate coding, witch results appear in some bad combinations. But I sure would be surprised, if my system is that unique.

In cases like these, I really wish there were some more/deeper interest to try catch these issues, finding the causes and perhaps fix them. I know you´ll say, file an issue. And you´re right. But you´re also wrong, as filing an issue doesn´t guarantee anything. Its cases like these where I sometimes (luckily very seldom) feel, it´s waste of time. Cause either its too complicated cases, or I cant document it enough to be to less complicated. The developer of Zigbee gave up on my issues. The developer of the WMbus simply vanished. Those two issues which have been most complicated once at my setup.
I dont ask them to spend all their time on my system. But if my system is that unique, perhaps it would be an idea trying to find whats going on, so others dont have to struggle with the same, if they come as far as I have done… But, again, I dont think my system is that unique… Which is why the major question is - Howcome I´m the only one having these issues? I guess I´ll have to find the answer to this all by myself!

Depending on the binding, that sometimes means you need to adjust EXTRA_JAVA_OPTS. Invalid addons can cause the new loader to restart all addons every minute, trying to load the invalid one. The major culprit is usually restdocs since it got moved from misc to ui.

The same thing happens on my system when I remove or install bindings.When i remove openweathermap the rfxcom bridge goes offline and back online the same happens when i uninstall or install modbus binding.but this gives no further problems so why should we worry?

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I dont use restdocs.
Invalid addons is however something I would have no idea of, unless they show me, (as a user) some physical evidence, either through logs or things not working. Then I could say, it´s an invalid addon. But what good is this, when others are using the same addon, and they dont experience the same symptoms.

As far as adjusting the EXTRA_JAVA_OPTS, I would have no idea how to or how much to “adjust”. And again, I would expect this to show as a fault/issue somewhere.

Hmm, that sure makes me glad to hear, well somehow. Then at least I´m not the only one.

Because, in my case, it can take several minutes before things are back to normal again (online again). As I´d post to Rich, I truely believe this is an highly unapropiate way of “resetting” something like this. If this was only a coupple of seconds, I could perhaps accept it better. But I truely believe this is nowhere intended, which is why I believe its an issue which should be fixed (or at least find the cause to somehow try to deal with it). If everyone say the same, (why worry), we´ll never get rid of this one.

In my case, it resets in a second.But I don’t use a raspberry pi.I stopped doing that a while ago.I use a mini pc And I have to say that it runs much smoother than a raspberry pi.

Perhaps you´re right, the Rpi3B+ could be some of the causes for this. I have thought about trying some other hardware. (I do have a second OH installed on a Odroid C2. And it´s alot smoother then the Rpi3B+). But I cant reproduce my whole system on this one, having two simular systems running side by side. I really wish I could, as it would be fun to see how different hardware performs. But some of my devices cant handle more than one connection at once. And if they could, high chances are, I would be moving issues from the hardware/openhab system to the devices themselves. Which could lead to other serious problems.

If you do use USB serials alot then it may help to add a UDEV rule along with EXTRA_JAVA_OPTS as @Bruce_Osborne mentioned.

Apparently there are currently 2 ways of using serial.
The newer way, used by zwave does not require the EXTRA_JAVA_OPTS.
The older way, as used in zigbee, works more reliably with that set. It may or may not work otherwise.

Already have that

Could you be more specific?

It was referred to in this Zigbee issue.

As far as I´m reading this, the changes should have been merged in 2.5 Release…

The Issue was closed but I do not think Chris incorporated it before 2.5 due to other concerns. I just recently needed to work on that for somebody here running 2.5.

It could have made some sense, if it had been merged, as I didnt have the above issue in 2.5M2. But now I have.

Of course you can. Even more useful is to shunt a specific bindings logs to it’s item file. See:

And the “Filter” field at the top of frontail.

I do recommend using tail -f or multitail on a terminal over frontail for over all flexibility. See How to watch and look through logging.

You have full control over what gets logged through many different avenues.

Since frontail is a third party app, you would have to take this to with them.

Not filling an issue does gall but guarantee it won’t get looked at and fixed though.

If you want guarantees, you have to do it yourself.

Well, you’ve given it a shot here. No one in the forum so far has been able to give you any more information. And even if we were, we couldn’t fix it for you. So the next step is to file an issue with the information you do have.

I’m personally not convinced it isn’t working as designed. If it is, the devs will respond to the issue saying so. If it isn’t, they will have a look. But if they can’t reproduce the behavior their setup, their hands are tied. They can’t fix a behavior they cannot reproduce. And there are more than 350! (350 factorial, a number larger than all the grains of sand in the world) possible configurations of OH, which doesn’t count Rules and treats each binding as only one.

You will see bindings reloading every minute, as had been mentioned several times on this thread. You will also see a failed to load binding error log message. This is not what you are experiencing but it is a common problem a number if people experienced when they upgraded and didn’t notice the warning that the rest API docs moved.

Thanks. I already know how to log to a specific file. But in this case, I´ll need to log those involved bindings, which in my example is at leat three (four) bindings.

Filter option in frontail wont work cause it´s specific. Again this example involves 3(4) bindings, which is why its impossible to use the filter option.

I´ll have a look at the link on how to watch and look through logging. I wasn´t aware of other options as mentioned above.

I didnt ask for fix, but suggestions on how to troubbleshot…

They may have suggestions or ideas, even though they cant reproduce… Remember, they know the codes, I´m just a user knowing nothing of whats behind.

I know… thats why I said, this is highly complicated, and why I searched for suggestions on how to trobbleshoot this one.

I know all this… This is not just on the first startup after updating. This issue I can reproduce all the time, since I updated OH to the latest release.
I´m 99% sure, this is not the way it´s suppose to be, (I can be wrong). I´m possisitive something have gone wrong somewhere. I just need to figure out, how to present this without it beeing too complicated and having the manitainers saying “sorry we cant fix your problem, cause we cant reproduce”. I know I have to file the issue. I just want to file something usefull for them to work with.

The behavior is exceptionally simple to describe. Installing/uninstalling an add-on causes the following bindings to reset: (list of bindings). If they need more information they will ask for it and if you don’t know how to get the info they will tell you.

Yes, thats the simple way to do it. But as usual I´m trying to be as specific and provide all the info I can. Guess I should just get that idea out of my head…

Btw… It only happens when install/uninstall bindings from PaperUI. Not doing manual installs in the addons… Also it doesnt seem to be concentrated on Zigbee binding alone. I just tried uninstall Chromecast binding, and the very same thing happened. I assume this happens with all bindings. But only the same 3(4) bindings gets affected.

Actually - I´m close to give it all up… Just had a major hell here.
In a try to get closer to something usefull information, I noticed I had 29 apt updates available. I went into openhabian config and started the update… (when things aren´t working, do something)…
After these updates, things started to fall down on me… First restart of OH went almost fine, except half of my system never came online. I stopped OH, clean cache and restarted again… This startup procedure went fine for a few seconds, then OH looked like its simply froze. Nothing more happened. But OH was still running, cause when I use cli to stop it, I could see in the tail log, that it was stopping the services…
Gave it yet another try - Same thing happened.
Then I ripped of my Rpi, removed devices I´m not using (a Zigbee shield on the GPIO interface). Started again - Same thing happened. Stopped OH, clean cache and rebooted… Finally it looked like is was at least starting again.

I am getting sick and tired of spending lots of hours on this ever day and simply getting nowhere.
Even that damn emphesis is flooding my log with errors at startup (from clean cache) even though I have it setup in PaperUI as I´m suppose to :rage:

Going from a unstable version to a stable version, should not result in an even more unstable system! For some reason, thats what I´m experiencing!