Scott outlined the official process for how Issues are supposed to be filed above. Follow it or not. I’ll help where I can, but if I ask someone to file an issue and they don’t, I’m done with that user. They’ve wasted my and other contributors time.
There ain’t no users if there’s no developers or product. If the users want developers attention they have to go where the developers are. They are mostly in github. Sometimes for your luck they visit here. In the end it’s never about the time. Everybody has all the time they need and it seems to me that you are using it the wrong way.
FTR it’s one user vs. others that (by chance) happen to be moderators, too (and users, too ), i.e. the responsibles in your terms. That’s what the little shield nearby a name means.
Now to silence him would not be appropriate action either, would it ? At least it would have a “smell” so we don’t. Everyone annoyed or not interested is free to ignore/unsubscribe from the thread.
PS: the proper way to request removal of posts or even users is to click that little flag at the bottom of a post, but be prepared that’ll end up in our mailbox
nothing more needs said
You asked a question to me, so I will reply to that:
I don’t know if silencing down somebody in this thread is an appropriate action. The decision is not up to me. For sure this thread is an embarrassment. This thread is driven by egos who don’t provide any proposals. Consequently, it is the wrong environment with the right people missing, in order to make things better.
P.S. I am not a forum expert. I don’t know what happens, if I flag something like you already experienced before.
FTR, what I wrote was not the official process. There is something official here… https://www.openhab.org/docs/developer/contributing.html#create-issues, but it would be good to have your topic added under the New User Tutorial or somewhere else in the docs.
In case you find it necessary, there is an option in your profile to mute users (and trolls!)…
You totally misunderstood me. By that I meant that a user has to open an issue on Github for every bug actually detected, without exception. It happened very often in the past that it was sufficient to publish the problem here in the forum without creating a github issue and it was solved anyway.
Would like to avoid this constant double search (Github and here).
The solution to that is to just file an issue on GitHub. That is the authoritative source for bugs and enhancements.
Yes, that is true. And I know about this. But in the past it was sufficient simply to publish the problem here in the forum. (and it was solved anyway!)
From now on every user should be made known.
This may be. But the developers also benefit from the users. They are always available for tests and reports. They mostly provide the free and voluntary helpdesk, they usually filter out and analyze the real bugs. They give the developer new ideas and make suggestions for improvements and enhancements.
That’s exactly how an open source project works.
In life, thing change and projects like this hopefully grow and mature. Older, mature people like me sometime have trouble accepting that things have changed. They then get frustrated, left behind, and ignored.
Give up, Alex… We seem to be the only two who believe this.
It´s quite clear to me, there are some people in here who believe the users time spending is worth nothing, unless they are willing to spend even more time on Github as well. It´s their responsibility to do so, it seems.
We become the ‘grumpy old men’.
In this particular matter, I dont feel grumpy though. Old yes, this I cant ignore. But not grumpy.
As I have tried to explained a few times, I see this as a more flexible way rather than pulling obligations and responsibilities down onto people (neither users, developers or anyone else), who I believe are part of this project, because of interest and they care.
My experiences tells me, each time you put obligations and responsibilites onto someone, they either demand something in return, (which then puts obligations and resposibilities onto others) or they will back off. This is how commercial products works.
A open source project should, (in my opinion) be driven on interest and caring from all involved parts.
That involves, (but not limited to), interest in filing issues on Github as well as participate on the forum from the users side. But also receive and respond on issues filed on github as well as participate on the forum from the developers side as well, (Ofcouse this has to be limited in some way to make room for developing. Otherweise nothing really matters).
I know you as well as others, as it seems, do not agree on this. The problem is, if/when thats the way the users sees it, you´re back to the situation explained above, where they will pull obligations and responsibilties down onto each other, and caring/interest become a secondary drive, if any drive at all. By then, you have the recipe for a commercial product insted.
Just to clarify for those in the future.
This thread topic refers to users sunning Testing (Milestone & Release Candidate) builds of OH. It also applies to those running unstable (snapshot) builds.The purpose of these builds is testing and bug reporting (onGitHub). Although forum discussion can help narrow the scope and isolate the root cause of an issue, the issue MUST be reported in GiHub to be resolved.
Users running Stable versions do not have these same responsibilities.
Does it really change anything?
A user running stable who runs into a issue has the exact same responsibility, (read - possibility), if he wants the issue fixed. Only other option is to change to the unstable/testing/milestone hoping the issue has been resolved. But then he ends up in this “responsibility demand” thread.
By then, you´re back to the same once again.
You are contradicting yourself. See here.
Isn’t he on 2.5 Stable?
Possibility vs. Responsibility. I did not say stable users cannot file on GH.
I asked nicely since NPEs are usually bug. The user does not have the responsibility to do so though,
But you agreed with the original statement - There is no issue if it hasn´t been filed onto Github. Right?
With the above in mind, please answer this:
- Which options are available for a stable user, who run into an issue?
- Which options are available for a testing user, who run into an issue?
The answer seem pretty logic to me with the original statement in mind - Github!
When you are pulling obligations and responsibilities onto the testing users, you´re accepting the stable users are not having the same responsibilities. But the original statement from the users side of view, are the exact same. If not, please explain how its different?.
Problem seems to be, if a stable user run into an issue, he´s automatically beeing pointed towards Github for his reporting. According to the original statement, thats the only option you can offer, right? In that case, he is beeing threated as a testing user. There are no other options.
So I simply have to repeat my previous question:
Does it really change anything?
Yes, as stated by Kai, starting this thread discussion that there is no bug unless it is on GitHub…
A Testing or Unstable user has obligated themselves to files discovered issues since that is the major purpose of those versions. There is no such obligation for the stable users.
Taking a totally pragmatic view ;
If you want the right people to see the problem you have, the ones capable of fixing it for you - put it on github.
Putting it on github should also encourage you to formalize your problem - examples, evidence, impact etc. - to make it easier to fix. You want it fixed, right?
Totally self-serving, but seems in agreement with much of what’s said here.
Also, if users do not want that responsibility, stick to using stable versions.