[SOLVED] Handling and responsibilities in bug tracking

[Kim_Andersen]

@Bruce_Osborne

A Testing or Unstable user has obligated themselves to files discovered issues since that is the major purpose of those versions. There is no such obligation for the stable users.

But again - Does it change anything from the stable user point of view?

@rossko57

If you want the right people to see the problem you have, the ones capable of fixing it for you - put it on github.

And this goes, wether or not the user is testing or stable, right?

@Bruce_Osborne

Also, if users do not want that responsibility, stick to using stable versions.

If you want/need a issue fixed, Github is where it goes. If you dont report on Github, there is no issue. I dont see anywhere this differs from the users preferences.

[Bruce_Osborne]

@Kim_Andersen

But again - Does it change anything from the stable user point of view?

We can help them, possibly my pointing to a known issue / bug.

The problem is Testing/Unstable users who complain here while not fulfilling their obligations to help resolve the issue.

This dead horse is now well beaten.

[rossko57]

@Bruce_Osborne

Also, if users do not want that responsibility, stick to using stable versions.

But stable versions still have deficiencies … we’re back to “but you want it fixed, right?” which leads to “well, here’s the process.”

Process as I see it - raise it here, discuss, share experiences, maybe get help with your own stupid mistake, maybe find a workaround, maybe find someone who understands it better than you. If its still a bug, github it.

Versions don’t seem to matter much.

[Celaeno1 (Alex)]

@Bruce_Osborne

The problem is Testing/Unstable users who complain here while not fulfilling their obligations to help resolve the issue.

Stable release users are allowed to complain? If so, I’m going to switch to “Stable Version” immediately! There are the same errors inside like in latest Snapshot or like in (M1, M2, M3, M4, M5 ,M6 and RC1).

[Bruce_Osborne]

@Celaeno1

Stable release users are allowed to complain?

Yes, and we are free to ignore them.

[hilbrand (Hilbrand Bouwkamp)]

Developer here.

I see sometimes people refer to developers being on GitHub and not here. I don’t think this applies anymore. This was (probably) true when openHAB core was the Eclipse Smarthome project. But now that ESH has been integrated back in openHAB I see all active developers very regularly interacting here on the forum. So my suggestion is to not make this distinction anymore as it only creates a artificial distance between users and developers (who are users anyway).

What about GitHub? Since everyone is completely free how to handle feature or bug reports there is no one way how these things are handled. I follow the forum regularly for bindings I maintain and if there is problem I try to fix it. However this is my personal approach as a developer. And if other issues are reported here and either there is no developer or it is handled by someone who can’t fix or hasn’t the time to fix it right away the best advice is to create an issue on GitHub. Why? Because on GitHub it’s better suited to track specific issues. Here on the forum there a very long threads and a specific issue can easily get lost. On GitHub I can assign it to me and I always have it as a todo. For this reason I also suggested recently in some topics for users to report the issue on GitHub as I don’t have enough time on short notice to fix it and I already saw these issues got buried as multiple people reacted with different issues. So should issues be reported on GitHub? Yes if it’s critical and if you don’t want it to get buried this is the best advice.

How about it being to much to ask for a user? I’d like to give another point of view for the user. Here is a constraint: A developer has limited time and can decide what to work on obviously. So any time not having to figure out what the problem is increases the chance to get it fixed. Look at it from a production line optimization (Like the Toyota Production System) So it’s in the interest of the user to optimize the problem to be as concise and best described as possible in order to reduce the noise. Because the less time it takes to pin point the problem the faster the developer can get it fixed. So basically the user is in control to manage the developer time in order to get the user problem fixed faster. And as a user you should use ways that best help your case to enable the developer to operate effectively and filling a GitHub issue certainly helps. As this is an open source project and not a commercial project there are no commercial priorities to fix issues. So developers also look what can be fixed easily. Therefor suggestion to file a GitHub issues should not be seen as annoying the user. But to give the user more means to manage the developer’s time and progress the users case to get solutions. That said. In the end there is never a guarantee something gets fixed, but as a user you can provide the means to make it easier.

[Celaeno1 (Alex)]

Everything also has been said in this tutorial from February, 22nd, 2019:

How to file an Issue

There will be times when you discover a bug in OH. This tutorial explains how to file an issue so the developers can know about the bug and hopefully fix it. Do I Have a Bug? openHAB is a complex system with lots of options and ways to configure various capabilities. As the old saying goes, openHAB gives you a lot of rope with which to hang yourself. So how do I as an average user know whether I’ve done something wrong or if there is a bug? The good news is we don’t expect you. Step 1: Ask fo…

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EDIT: This Topic has been read only by 306 users…

So I guess: only ~1% of all (~33700) forum users ever could have known this…

[Bruce_Osborne]

@hilbrand

So my suggestion is to not make this distinction anymore as it only creates a artificial distance between users and developers (who are users anyway).

Kai explicitly stated if it is not on GitHub it is not a bug. What started this discussion was issues discussed on the forum but not on GitHub so therefore not addressed.

You can suggest to Kai he change the policy if you wish.

[Bruce_Osborne]

@Celaeno1

Everything also has been said in this tutorial from February, 22nd, 2019:

@Celaeno1

EDIT: This Topic has been read only by 306 users…

So I guess: only ~1% of all forum users ever could have known this…

Perhaps that should be pinned in the forum.

[rlkoshak (Rich Koshak)]

@Celaeno1

So I guess: only ~1% of all (~33700) forum users ever could have known this…

As I said above. If a user was asked to file an issue on GitHub and didn’t do it, shame on them. If the user didn’t know to file an issue on GitHub, shame on us. We’ve failed that user. It is unreasonable to expect that every user will just know to file issues on GitHub. But when asked to, it is very reasonable to expect that they will do so if they want to get the problem fixed.

If you didn’t know to file a GitHub issue, we failed you. That’s on us.

[Kim_Andersen]

@Bruce_Osborne

The problem is Testing/Unstable users who complain here while not fulfilling their obligations to help resolve the issue.

Lets get one thing straight… People who complaints have totally missed the whole concept of open source. They´re not worth discussing, and certainly not worth makes rules for. They´re wrong and they will never be right, no matter how many obligations you put down onto them.