Z-Wave item only partly working

Tags: #<Tag:0x00007efec4783650> #<Tag:0x00007efec4783538>

Hi,
after having worked without problems for approx 2 years, I have 2 z-wave items that now only work partially after a reboot.
It is a rollershutter and a wall plug, both Fibaro brand.
They do not work when switching up/down or on/off via app or website, but when switching manually via key, they provide the correct power / energy to the openhab system.
Several system reboots did not help.
Removing the devices via paper UI and adding again (->all channels are as before) did not help.
I did not try to completely remove them from the system, reset and add them again - this is not easy on the rollershutter and every reinclude takes away one of the z-wave addresses.
The system is Raspbian on a Raspberry Pi 4, openhab 2.5.10.
Z-Wave stick is Aeotec AEOEZW090-C Aeon Labs USB Stick Gen5.
Any ideas?

I assume these are battery operated devices? If so you need to wake them up many times for the binding to complete discovery especially during when adding to OH so the binding receives the node information from the device.

That also leaves behind zombie nodes that can impact your Z-Wave network as devices try to route through those non-existent modes.

The system is Raspbian on a Raspberry Pi 4, openhab 2.5.10.
Z-Wave stick is Aeotec AEOEZW090-C Aeon Labs USB Stick Gen5

There are some Aeotec sticks that need to be plugged in to a powered USB3 hub when connected to a Pi 4 so they do not get identified as a USB3 device.

It appears to me you have several potential issues here. Follow the binding documentation instructions to enable DEBUG logging. I would then delete & re-add one of the devices and post the unfiltered log here.

I am not as experienced at debugging as others here but they will need the logs. you might find something obvious from them by using the log viewer here.

I assume these are battery operated devices?

No, both are mains powered. And they are already fully discovered - they worked for 2 years.

That also leaves behind zombie nodes that can impact your Z-Wave network as devices try to route through those non-existent modes.

Agreed, that’s why I remove the device from the controller, too, in such a case. But for these 2 devices, I only removed and re-added them via PaperUI.

There are some Aeotec sticks that need to be plugged in to a powered USB3 hub when connected to a Pi 4 so they do not get identified as a USB3 device.

Yes, my Aeotec stick also runs via USB2 hub connected to a Pi 4.
By the way, the other approx. 35 Z-Wave devices run without problems.

I will try to add DEBUG logging for the Z-Wave binding.

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Do you have a Windows PC available? There is some Windows software that can uaually remove those nodes from the network on your stick.

Yes, Windows PC is available.
But the nodes are partially still working, so I would not like to exclude them from the stick since this permanently invalidades the devices address…

Do the logs show devices trying to talk to node addresses that are no longer in use? If to, those unused addresses need to be removed from the controller network. This may or may not relate to the other issues.

Excluding a device does not remove the node id from the controller. Once you get to node 232, the stick will start handing out unused nodes starting with node 1.

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Once you get to node 232, the stick will start handing out unused nodes starting with node 1.

Really? Wow, I didn’t know that. Thanks for clarifying!

I did a short 15 min zwave log with debug:
ZWave.log (779.6 KB)
The nodes are Rollershutter (Node 4) und Wall Plug (Node 34).
The log viewer does not show any problems.
There are many “Polling deferred until initialisation complete” messages - not only for the 2 problematic nodes.

After a Openhab restart, both devices show “Node Initializing: REQUEST_NIF” for several days now…

That is usually an indication a battery operated device has not stayed awake long enough to resoind to the NIF request with its information stored in firmware.

Okay, but both devices are mains powered…

Another strange thing is that the controller seems to receive messages from unknown nodes:

2020-11-02 20:51:33.653 [WARN ] [nal.protocol.ZWaveTransactionManager] - NODE 97: Not initialized (ie node unknown), ignoring message.
2020-11-02 20:51:34.401 [WARN ] [nal.protocol.ZWaveTransactionManager] - NODE 97: Not initialized (ie node unknown), ignoring message.
2020-11-03 10:51:54.173 [WARN ] [nal.protocol.ZWaveTransactionManager] - NODE 57: Not initialized (ie node unknown), ignoring message.
2020-11-03 17:53:23.217 [WARN ] [nal.protocol.ZWaveTransactionManager] - NODE 54: Not initialized (ie node unknown), ignoring message.
2020-11-03 18:48:56.632 [WARN ] [nal.protocol.ZWaveTransactionManager] - NODE 107: Not initialized (ie node unknown), ignoring message.
2020-11-03 18:48:56.883 [WARN ] [nal.protocol.ZWaveTransactionManager] - NODE 107: Not initialized (ie node unknown), ignoring message.
2020-11-03 18:48:57.445 [WARN ] [nal.protocol.ZWaveTransactionManager] - NODE 107: Not initialized (ie node unknown), ignoring message.
2020-11-03 21:02:01.750 [WARN ] [nal.protocol.ZWaveTransactionManager] - NODE 18: Not initialized (ie node unknown), ignoring message.
2020-11-04 19:44:41.793 [WARN ] [nal.protocol.ZWaveTransactionManager] - NODE 12: Not initialized (ie node unknown), ignoring message.
2020-11-04 19:44:43.459 [WARN ] [nal.protocol.ZWaveTransactionManager] - NODE 12: Not initialized (ie node unknown), ignoring message.
2020-11-04 19:44:46.076 [WARN ] [nal.protocol.ZWaveTransactionManager] - NODE 12: Not initialized (ie node unknown), ignoring message.
2020-11-04 19:44:46.164 [WARN ] [nal.protocol.ZWaveTransactionManager] - NODE 12: Not initialized (ie node unknown), ignoring message.
2020-11-05 01:59:15.456 [WARN ] [nal.protocol.ZWaveTransactionManager] - NODE 54: Not initialized (ie node unknown), ignoring message.
2020-11-05 01:59:15.948 [WARN ] [nal.protocol.ZWaveTransactionManager] - NODE 54: Not initialized (ie node unknown), ignoring message.
2020-11-05 01:59:16.117 [WARN ] [nal.protocol.ZWaveTransactionManager] - NODE 54: Not initialized (ie node unknown), ignoring message.
2020-11-05 05:04:35.073 [WARN ] [nal.protocol.ZWaveTransactionManager] - NODE 100: Not initialized (ie node unknown), ignoring message.
2020-11-05 07:24:37.131 [WARN ] [nal.protocol.ZWaveTransactionManager] - NODE 150: Not initialized (ie node unknown), ignoring message.
2020-11-05 07:24:38.994 [WARN ] [nal.protocol.ZWaveTransactionManager] - NODE 150: Not initialized (ie node unknown), ignoring message.
2020-11-05 07:24:41.246 [WARN ] [nal.protocol.ZWaveTransactionManager] - NODE 150: Not initialized (ie node unknown), ignoring message.
2020-11-05 08:11:25.478 [WARN ] [nal.protocol.ZWaveTransactionManager] - NODE 54: Not initialized (ie node unknown), ignoring message.
2020-11-05 11:15:16.622 [WARN ] [nal.protocol.ZWaveTransactionManager] - NODE 18: Not initialized (ie node unknown), ignoring message.
2020-11-05 11:15:16.651 [WARN ] [nal.protocol.ZWaveTransactionManager] - NODE 18: Not initialized (ie node unknown), ignoring message.
2020-11-05 16:49:05.446 [WARN ] [nal.protocol.ZWaveTransactionManager] - NODE 102: Not initialized (ie node unknown), ignoring message.
2020-11-05 16:49:05.602 [WARN ] [nal.protocol.ZWaveTransactionManager] - NODE 102: Not initialized (ie node unknown), ignoring message.
2020-11-06 09:51:39.960 [WARN ] [nal.protocol.ZWaveTransactionManager] - NODE 57: Not initialized (ie node unknown), ignoring message.
2020-11-06 16:38:20.671 [WARN ] [nal.protocol.ZWaveTransactionManager] - NODE 12: Not initialized (ie node unknown), ignoring message.
2020-11-07 06:46:47.800 [WARN ] [nal.protocol.ZWaveTransactionManager] - NODE 23: Not initialized (ie node unknown), ignoring message.
2020-11-07 06:46:47.813 [WARN ] [nal.protocol.ZWaveTransactionManager] - NODE 23: Not initialized (ie node unknown), ignoring message.
2020-11-08 01:26:43.603 [WARN ] [nal.protocol.ZWaveTransactionManager] - NODE 166: Not initialized (ie node unknown), ignoring message.
2020-11-08 01:26:43.971 [WARN ] [nal.protocol.ZWaveTransactionManager] - NODE 166: Not initialized (ie node unknown), ignoring message.
2020-11-08 09:16:41.821 [WARN ] [nal.protocol.ZWaveTransactionManager] - NODE 166: Not initialized (ie node unknown), ignoring message.
2020-11-08 16:54:22.454 [WARN ] [nal.protocol.ZWaveTransactionManager] - NODE 59: Not initialized (ie node unknown), ignoring message.
2020-11-08 16:54:22.764 [WARN ] [nal.protocol.ZWaveTransactionManager] - NODE 59: Not initialized (ie node unknown), ignoring message.
2020-11-08 21:08:20.869 [WARN ] [nal.protocol.ZWaveTransactionManager] - NODE 12: Not initialized (ie node unknown), ignoring message.
2020-11-08 22:04:39.577 [WARN ] [nal.protocol.ZWaveTransactionManager] - NODE 12: Not initialized (ie node unknown), ignoring message.
2020-11-08 23:24:14.784 [WARN ] [nal.protocol.ZWaveTransactionManager] - NODE 100: Not initialized (ie node unknown), ignoring message.
2020-11-09 09:59:52.042 [WARN ] [nal.protocol.ZWaveTransactionManager] - NODE 18: Not initialized (ie node unknown), ignoring message.
2020-11-09 09:59:52.253 [WARN ] [nal.protocol.ZWaveTransactionManager] - NODE 18: Not initialized (ie node unknown), ignoring message.
2020-11-09 12:10:47.160 [WARN ] [nal.protocol.ZWaveTransactionManager] - NODE 166: Not initialized (ie node unknown), ignoring message.
2020-11-09 12:10:47.421 [WARN ] [nal.protocol.ZWaveTransactionManager] - NODE 166: Not initialized (ie node unknown), ignoring message.

If those nodes do not actually exist they are zombie nodes and can cause issues with your zwave network. They need to be removed from the network. I have not had good success trying to do that through the OH binding. There is some Windows software that works and some people have had success with the Linux openzwave control panel software. Stop OH before using that though

Okay, I will try.

Regarding the 2 nodes that cannot be switched via OpenHab:
They report status updates (Wall Plug on/off, Rollershutter open/closed) after being changed via device pushbuttons. They simply cannot be changed via OpenHab. Strange.

They may be trying to communicate through zombie nodes. I try to keep them to a minimum to avoid issues.

Chances are this is simply caused by corrupt frames, and not (so called) zombie nodes. ZWave has a very poor error detection algorithm, and corruption is no uncommon. These errors are only happening very occasionally (a few times a day) so I don’t think this is anything to be particularly worried about.

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I run into the same problem. Manual actions on the device are reported to OH but OH cannot do actions to the devices.

I can only speak for the rollershutter but I solved it that way:
Delete node via habmin from config. (do not delete from z-wave stick!)
Delete corresponsing xml file for /etc/userdata
Start redetect via habmin (device will come back into OH, if thsi does not work, click a button on device to trigger it, even if it is a main powered device this was needed on my side, looks like the device is not talking if I don’t give it a hint ;-))
Use reinitiale from habmin (this does the magic!)

After that it looks like the device will be reread and OH recreates the thing and forget old information about the device. Now I was able to use it from OH.

That sounds promising! I will try it later and report how it worked. Thanks for the hint!

Okay, it was not that easy.
For the wall plug, it worked by deleting and redetecting.
The rollershutter had to be removed and reincluded to the network (including taking it from the wall to get to the including switch…:frowning: )
But now everything is working again.