Zwave technology replacement


(Petr Klus) #1

Hi,

With the few recent announcement re. Zwave security vulnerabilities and the sheer fact that it’s a closed technology, I am looking for a replacement technology that could fill in its shoes as I am no longer interested in making any significant investment into closed technology.

My question then is - is there any open protocol + set of devices that could provide the following:

  • motion sensors
  • relay switches
  • temperatures monitors, security monitors, etc.

I am looking for something that would be open, secure and robust. Ideal device in my book supports one of the later WiFi technologies and provides open protocol to talk to it (i.e. REST).


(Chris Jackson) #2

I think the issue you are talking about was due to device software bugs - it’s not actually an issue with the technology. Additionally, there is an updated security spec that improves security further (although I’m not sure how many, if any, devices support it at the moment).

No - not any more. A lot of the ZWave protocol has been opened up to the public (although not 100%). This puts it in a similar camp to technologies like ZigBee that have open protocol definitions, but if you want to use them commercially, then you need to ‘subscribe’ ;).

Anyway, I just thought I’d mention this - you might still want to look at other technologies of course :slight_smile: .


(Petr Klus) #3

Thank you for the quick reply - regarding the security point, I think there was another structural vulnerability that weakened the whole protocol pretty much but would need to look up a reference.

Regarding openness - Could you please point me to any resources?

In general, I would still prefer a WiFi enabled solution (as I’ve got Ubiquiti-based robust wifi throughout my house) to get rid of the need for dongles/extra devices but have not seen anything anywhere as comprehensive as the Zwave ecosystem for WiFi etc.


(Chris Jackson) #4

Certainly the analyses I found talks of an implementation issue in the key exchange (which only happens for 20 seconds after a device is included).

http://neominds.org/download/zwave_wp.pdf

http://zwavepublic.com/


(SiHui) #5

All DIY devices I’ve found can not be operated on batteries (they don’t last very long).
You may have a look at


(Artyom Syomushkin) #6

As far as I know all similar technologies are closed as Z-wave or even more. This concerns Enocean for example. KNX rf might be good, but it’s not competetive in price term. MQTT over WiFi becomes quite supported by Chinese vendors, but it’s not meshed and it’s not working at device profile level.


(Petr Klus) #7

Just had a quick look on KNX RF, is there any real added value for the price premium? Seems pretty steep for what the feature set is (I may be ignorant though and not see the benefits).

Regarding MQTT over WiFi - that looks very promising to me! I do not really care about device profiles, happy to write simple custom integrations for each of the devices. Could you point me please to some examples of such devices?


(Petr Klus) #8

Thank you very much - will have a look!


(SiHui) #9

You already got - at least - one in my post above :sunglasses:


(Petr Klus) #10

sorry, forum fail (just looked at my email notifications instead of opening up the forum post)


(eviltechmonkey) #11

The technolog(y,ies) you choose will vary by the country you’re in. In North America quite a few folks will happily recommend you stick with Insteon with the 2413U PLM and NOT the crappy hub. Outside of the US it seems Zwave has more of a stronghold. I’ve heard too many complaints to consider it seriously.

In addition though, since you’re using OpenHAB don’t limit yourself to one technology or protocol! I love MQTT stuff too. Great for DIY sensors and relays but not as pretty as finished products like in wall switches and outlets. The obvious benefit to Zwave/Zigbee/Insteon/etc is the fact they’re not WiFi so not open to the same potential exploits. Putting together a WiFi temperature sensor for under $10 USD that could be run on battery for extended periods is fun and flexible compared to $30+ USD for a prefabricated option.


(Artyom Syomushkin) #12

It’s not really true. You compare proprietary technology(Insteon) with standard (Z-wave). In EU actually there are many similar proprietary technologies, but each country usually has one-two big vendors. For example in Germany very popular brand is Homematic(wired and RF). It’s devices are cheaper than Z-wave and good. So it’s like “Insteon” in US. Somfy is another big brand, but in France with less presence in other countries.
So one can always select one of these - openHAB should support them as well, but we all talk about Z-wave, because it’s not binding us to specific vendor as existence of Insteon might be not questionized, but Homematic or Somfy can dissapear one day, and then you have trouble.


(Urmil Parikh) #13

I’m one of the developers of zmote, a Wi-Fi to IR bridge: http://www.zmote.io

We are developing a Wi-Fi based relay board in similar lines and are also looking at Wi-Fi to serial bridge.

All these options will be available locally (TCP or HTTP) as well as remotely through MQTT.

Before we spend more time and effort on such, I’d like to know if you guys think Wi-Fi can replace z-wave or zigbee?
And that, the market will have demand for such devices?


(The Squid) #14

I’ve been looking for a wifi relay and would love to hear/see more information.


(SiHui) #15

(The Squid) #16

I appreciate the links, I’ve seen them before but I would really prefer to find something off the shelf. I really don’t want to solder or program a chip. I just want to bind something to my network and switch point and send it commands. I know there are more adventurous folks out there, but for me I’d like the “dirty” work to be done and all I’d need need to worry about is sending it commands from OH.


(davorf) #17

Hello!

Do you know if it’s possible to use ITEAD (Sonoff) WiFi switches with regular switch (like Aeon Z-wave micro switch for example)? Those switches are really cheap, but it’s not an option - at least for me - if I can’t switch same load with either WiFi or regular switch. Is there a workaround to accomplish this?

Best regards,
Davor


(SiHui) #18

Sorry, don’t get your point :innocent:
From a quick look both switches are able to switch a load with max 10 Amps.


(davorf) #19

Hello!

The point is, I don’t want to constrain myself on using switch over WiFi only. Since it would be a light switch, I want to be able to turn the light on/off using regular wall switch too (the same thing you can do with Aeon Micro Switch/Dimmer), because I don’t want to sit in the dark if my OpenHAB server dies :smiley: Aeon Switch/Dimmer has dedicated wall switch connectors, so, it’s easy to connect it to a wall switch. Sonoff does not, and I was wondering if there is a way to connect it (via relay or something similar), so, both wall and WiFi switch could work independently (you can switch a light on using a wall switch, then turn it off using WiFi, or any other combination).

Best regards,
Davor


(SiHui) #20

Ahhh, got it :slight_smile:
Sorry, can’t tell, I am using Fibaro switches which also can be switched with regular wall switches for the same reason.
My Sonoff is still in the box, haven’t unpacked it yet, sorry.