64 bit setup on rpi 4?

Just got one rpi 4 with 8gb of memory for Openhab and was wondering if anyone has installed openhab on the new (beta version of) raspberry pi os 64 bit version? I assume that 64 bit should give some overall performance improvements to the server components (db, java, etc.). Has anyone attempted the install on 64 bit and did all the components work? Is there any tweaking required to get a 64 bit JVM?

I think you will still need to use the 32 bit JVM for now.

Why is that? I‘m not using openhabian, but on Windows (and pretty sure on my Debian machine, too), I‘m always using 64-bit Java. Is that related to ARM architecture?

Yes 64 bit on ARM is a recent development and I see that there is a zulu version for 64 bit ARM so I guess nothing in the way of doing a manual install. Just was wondering if all the other other components do survive :grin: since that linux version is still in beta.

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Yes you can use 64bit Java on ARM but it’s absolutely pointless. It uses more memory and therefore in fact runs a little slower than the 32bit version does.
Performance improvements are of purely theoretical nature, they’re restricted to some math-bound apps like AI or image processing and do not apply to openHAB.

64bit Zulu is available as an option in openHABian menu 45.
There’s also a beta openHABian image with a 64bit kernel at beta Images holgerfriedrich/openhabian
Have fun but I’d save my time on that.

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There was a time, and I would guess it’s no longer a problem, that anything binding that connected to serial devices wouldn’t work with 64-bit zulu on an RPi.

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That is awesome esp since there is already a full openhabian version. According to this site, there are other benefits of running the 64 bit architecture https://hackaday.com/2020/01/28/raspberry-pi-4-benchmarks-32-vs-64-bits/ and it seems like at least anything with encryption will already benefit from it. I’m surprised about the JVM performance - JVM 64 bit on Windows/Linux had better benchmarks than the 32 bit one.

What’s the point in ‘performance’ for a smart home server ? They idle along most of the time.

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I hear you, most of the time indeed, my setup is idle… Wouldn’t mind if some of the paper UI components would run be a bit faster (I’m running openhab right now on a old RPi 2 :open_mouth:) and same for some of the panel stuff (the zulu implementation is just impressive). Also, I’m using sqlite for persistence right now but with a bit more horsepower, wouldn’t mind running postgresql instead and be able to pull some of the weather data into powerbi for instance. Realize persistence is rarely a CPU bottleneck either but with 8gb as well on RPi, I’m not worried about running more services.

The serial library all bindings use nowadays supports 64-bit ARM systems (nrjavaserial#134 :wink:).
If you’re unlucky, you might run into a binding that uses its own native library that needs to be recompiled for 64-bit ARM support.

There’s also a 64-bit ARM openHAB Docker image. When I tested that on a RPi 3 running a 64-bit OS performance was noticeably worse. Though the 64-bit Raspberry Pi OS may have been better optimized.

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Does it matter, that it is 64bit or that the new 64bit Raspian (Paspberry Pi OS) has more optimazition for Raspberry Pi 4?

I want to use openHAB for controlling my Comfoair350, but on my actuel RP4 (openhabian) the Binding will not show up. It install, yes (V1 openhab / V2 eclipse), but it is not showing up.

So I ask myself if an other OS can fix that Problem. Or if it is a Hardware Problem. From the Base OS, openHABian seems a little outdated (or am I wrong?)

The part that I realy like, is that with an RP you can simply use multiple SD-Card an try different Stuff, without messing with an “Stable System” // Base Settings can be copied.

No it doesn’t.

Your problem may be located in HW or most likely in your OH setup but not in the OS, so no.

Yes and no.
First, it’s irrelevant (at least in terms of automation) … we have people to still and successfully run their OH on a jessie based openHABian (that’s 2 generations older than what the current image is based on).
Second, it’s buster based which is the most current Debian/Raspi OS (ex-Raspbian). You can install the openHABian image and use menu 02 (it does apt-get upgrade), that’ll bring you up to latest which is equivalent to what you can download from raspberrypi.org.
Third, we are finalizing the new image these days. You can already use it, it should work as good as the old one. Link see above.
Fourth, finally: all of that hasn’t got anything to do with 64 or 32 bit. (well except that there is a 64 bit beta image now, too).

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@mstormi
thanks for the explanation. I do not know what I have done wrong, because I didn’t made manual changes to OH. Ohter Bindings like TP-Link shows up.

For the moment the Comfoair is not connect so OH is only running on pure RP4, can that be the Problem? But why other Bindings are showing ob without added Things…

I’m not entirely new to Linux, but new to Raspberry Pi and openHAB. Perhaps I need more experience with simpler Things…

I’m digging up this topic as it might provide more continuity on the 64-bit discussion on a Raspberry Pi.

The Raspberry Pi OS was officially launched on 64-bit at the beginning of February this year, for RPi 3, RPi 4 and RPi Zero 2.

This was an essential change for me since I am using a RPi 3 with multiple containers, one of them being the Unifi Controller, which will drop out of support on 32-bit due to some issues with mongodb. The whole stack had to go to 64-bit.

However, when I attempted to put the official OpenHAB container on the now 64-bit machine, it loaded the CPU to the point it would no longer respond. That’s another problem in itself, and beyond the scope of this discussion.

The next option for me is to have a second Raspberry Pi exclusively for OpenHAB - then the easiest way to do that is through openHABian. The latest version is from right before the new Raspberry Pi OS based on 64-bit Debian Bullseye was launched, so there’s a 32-bit stable and a 64-bit beta.

The questions to this thread are if any of the previous considerations about 32 vs 64-bit should be revisited, and whether openHABian 64-bit has a now brighter future ahead, to be worth the investment of effort for a new release. :slight_smile:

I know that, for a lot of people, 64-bit equals the memory allocation above 4GB, which for a RPi 3 is irrelevant. But other smarter people with plenty of spare time on their hands did all sorts of comparison testing and analysis, and apparently having a native 64-bit OS on a 64-bit capable RPi also has more non-negligible benefits. This kinda begs the question, what’s holding us back from going forward with 64-bit software, on an OS that’s now officially supported?

Not really. Little has changed effectively.
I’m still not seeing any advantages of running 64bit on RPi in the OH context we are in here.
But disadvantages keep applying, increased memory consumption is still the primary downer here and very important on memory limited hardware that RPis are.
Regarding openHABian, official support of 64bit Raspi OS did not change anything about that situation. We (openHABian maintainers) will keep building 64bit versions of our image but we have no spare time to invest on that and will not actively spend efforts on testing and supporting anything specific to 64bit. And so far noone has shown up to stand in and take care of that part so it’s unlikely to get out of beta anytime soon.
As has been the situation in the past, the recommendation remains to use the 32bit image, but you can play with the 64bit image or put it to production just as you like. Choice is yours.

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Well there are several benchmarks that show significant performance improvements for the 64 bit version… Such as Raspberry Pi OS 32-bit vs. 64-bit Performance Review - Phoronix

I realize that for OpenHab itself it might not have any direct benefits but when you start running InfluxDB and other services on your Pi, I do suspect it sums up to something more perceptible. Also a 64 bit OS will have a higher memory footprint so maybe there is a case to be made to run the 64 bit version on the RPI 4 with 4Gb or more memory.

Also to keep in mind, that a hybrid setup with 64 kernel and 32 bit libraries is possible.

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