Hi all,
I have been running openHAB on a RPi 2B. I am not really satisfied with the stability. So im thinking maybe I need to upgrade the HW. Any recommendations? Maybe run it from a SSD as well, instead of a SD card?
Thank you,
Ramon
If you want to stick with Pi, then Pi4 or Pi5 should be your choice with at least 4 GB of RAM. This is because you may want to install 64bit PiOS as the rule engine is loading code into RAM much faster (search for āfirst run delayā). 64Bit PiOS reduces the delay from ~25 seconds down to <2 seconds.
SSD is a good idea as long as you have no problems of flashing your SSD with rpi-imager (you will find out immediately). Installation and booting time is also by far faster than SD and you do not need to mess around with ZRAM.
I am running openhab on SSD since it was officially supported by PiOS and never had any problems.
For completeness, you could also install an āopenhabianā image on an SSD, but the maintainer does not support itā¦
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There are many alternatives. Iāve been running my OH for some years now on a Rockpi 4, rock stable. It has a M.2 nvme slot, so Iām using a ārealā SSD.
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If youāre on a tight budget, an RPi4 4GB is perfectly good. Iām keeping an eye on RPi5 development, but theyāre expensive (relative to the RPi4) and still hard to get where I am (Canada).
Honestly though, your RPi2 is so old that anything new is going to feel like a night-and-day difference.
I look at this more as āSSD versus SD+UPSā. If you run an SD card without a UPS, then youāre asking for problems when power is inevitably lost and kills the card. The logical ways to protect against that are to switch to an SSD or add a UPS.
Iāve had exactly one SD card fail on me in five years, shortly after I started using OH. It was an old card, I didnāt have a UPS yet, and openHABian didnāt have ZRAM yet (which reduces wear on the SD card).
My UPS is just big enough to keep my RPi, Internet modem/router, and WiFi AP going through short outages, with a USB port to shut down the RPi if necessary. The RPi monitors it using Network UPS Tools (NUT), which is now an optional component in openHABian.
If and when I do get an RPi5, Iāll probably look into an M.2 hat. But thatās more out of interest than fear of SD failure.
Keep in mind that if you use an SSD in addition to other USB devices (e.g. Z-Wave/Zigbee controllers), you may need an externally powered USB hub or SSD enclosure to keep everything working. @Oliver2 may have more insight on this.
As I understand it, the issue is when rules are first loaded (at system start or after editing/saving), and only with some types of rules (e.g. Blockly and JS Scripting). For the benefit of other readers, I just want to clarify that āloading code into RAMā doesnāt happen every time the rule is triggered. So on a mature system thatās largely left alone, it may be less of a concern (but still an annoyance).
Itās not enough reason for me to switch to 64-bit at this time (Iām still using Rules DSL), but I agree with buying a system thatās capable of doing so in the future.
I think that openHABian now has a built-in option to transfer the system to an SSD, so that you only need to boot from the SD card. However, I havenāt tried it.
While there are many wrong choices (e.g. RPi 0 or RPi 1), there is a near infinity of right answers. What is important to you? Size? Power?
My requirements were such that I have a lot of other services I also want to run along side OH (some related, some not) so having a uniform way to deploy and configure (Asible), isolation between services (Docker) and separation between major functions (VMs in Proxmox) fit my requirements nicely.
Hardware wise I have almost everything running on a now aging desktop format server class Lenovo. Iām at the limit of what I can manage there so Iāve been slowly moving some of the less RAM or CPU intensive services to a pair of RPis (one RPi 3 and the other an RPi 4 with 8GB RAM).
Of course there are also a bunch of other RPis and ESPs around acting as edge devices for the home automation.
If you are just looking for a stand alone home automation server, an RPi is a great choice and I strongly recommend either an SDD or SD+UPS as has already been recommended.
If your requirements are more complex, like mine, the options become more interesting and involved and may need more thought and support tools to support.
It used to but that feature was removed quite awhile back because it was too hard to maintain and support.
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I had during the years the following configurations:
- Raspberry Pi 3b + SD card + docker installation - poor
- Rasbperry Pi 3b + SSD + docker installation - better
- HP T630 terminal with SSD + docker installation on Proxmox VE - best - this is strongly recommended configuration on many HomeAssistant forums.
There are a lot of very cheap offers and you have for circa 50USD (in my country) hardware with 8GB RAM, 128GB SSD with ability to enhance with second disk.
Proxmox based installation provides you (independently of your kind of deployment) ability to backup on the fly the whole configuration (VM) (in my case on second disk attached), safe configuration before major upgrades/changes and ability to deploy separately other services: pihole, wireguard server (using embedded LXE containers). I have deployed also small HomeAssistant installation for LocalTuya integration (binded via MQTT with OH).
So as you see there are much better options instead of stuck with overpriced Raspberry.
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Hi all, thx for your replies. I am currently running openHAB on it, a print server (to allow printing from Apple products), and saving 2 camera streams on a external HD (although both cameras actually failed, i still need to replace themā¦).
And yes im running without UPS. Ive had 1 SD card die on me in the past, well actually it was still sort of working but turned read only somehowā¦I only firgured this out after a reboot and a large part of my database was goneā¦
So I guess I will look into Pi4/5. What is this HP T630 exactly?
Thank you all for your suggestions.
It depends on your setup and what you have running besides OpenHAB in your network. In my case a run a power efficient PC with Xubuntu. Besides OpenHAB it runs 24/7 a Webserver with a DokuWiki (house documentation, Kitchen recipe database, etc.), a PiHole, a JellyFin server, CUPS printer server, a NAS with two large drives for storage/backup, a photo library, Spotify client spocon ā¦ and all the things I need on demand too. The heaviest load on demand is a minecraft server in a VMā¦
The hardware is build around a Celeron G1840 (back in 2015/2016, already quite old now) and is still doing great for all the listed stuff. Typically running at less than 14 Watt. For easy access (no remote) I paired it with a 12V 10" display that is connected to the power supply of the computer and a keyboard hidden in the same cabinet. I find this more flexible as a small Pi and it does not consume much more power as a Pi + NAS.
This is off-topic, but are you aware that thereās a Tuya binding in OH? You just have to install the SmarthomeJ marketplace. It works great and most devices are handled locally.
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I run openHABian, Network UPS Tools, and Pi-Hole on my RPi4 4GB without issue. I used to run a CUPS print server on it, but now have a an RPi3 running DietPi with CUPS, Pi-Hole, and octoPrint.
Yep, thatās one of the signs of a failed card. A single power outage may not kill an SD, but every power outage is a gamble.
Nice. Works like a charm. Thank you.
HP T630 is an example so called Thin Client. They are used in companies for streaming applications with remote desktop protocols/solutions like Citrix.
There is a lot of post-lease used hardware with the price of ca. 50USD. From my perspective is much better (stable, more efficient) than Raspberry Pi. Try to search proper portals in your country and you will find a lot of them.
Example youtube tutorials:
Iāll throw in the new Intel N100 boards. If you want to put something together yourself look at e.g. the AsRock N100DC-ITX (built in power supply where you can use e.g. an old notebook charger) or at the countless mini computers with it from the usual suppliers.For under 200ā¬ youāll get 16-32gb ram, a SSD and a more than beefy enough yet very power efficient x86 CPU.
to add my 2cents. Stay with Pi. two reasons:
- broad support here in forum, if using openHABian
- enough power for even big installations
What Iād suggest, is to seperate perfomance-hungry (here: camera streams) from your openHAB physically. So you could use your āoldā Pi2 for the camera streams, if thatās enough and a new Pi4/4GB (more than powerful enough).
Iām using only āSilicon Power 32GB 3D NAND High Speed MicroSD Cardā since years now with a bunch of Pis and donāt have any issues at all: here in Jeff Bezosā universe: https://www.amazon.com/Silicon-Power-Speed-MicroSD-Adapter/dp/B07Q384TPK
I just want to make something clear about SD cards and power outages. A power outage does not kill the SD card. Physically itās still just fine and can be used again. What it does do though it potentially corrupt the contents of the card. Given the nature of how flash memory works stuff you havenāt touched in years (file system tables, parts of critical services like the kernel or systemd) can be participating in a write operation and if that write operation doesnāt complete those parts of those files get lost which can lead to corruption and all sorts of weirdness.
But the key point is you donāt have to throw out the SD card. Itās still physically just fine.
When weird stuff happens and a power loss isnāt involved that could mean that the SD card has worn out. In that case, the OS and everything running thinks itās writing stuff to the file system. Thereās caching involved so it even looks like it wrote to the file system. However, it didnāt or only partially was able to complete the write and at a later time those changes get lost in part or in total. When this happens you must replace the SD card, as it means itās physically inoperable.
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Do you guys use/prefer āEnduranceā cards? I know there are different levels of āEnduranceā cards too.
Thatās my opinion too. It really just depends on how much effort the user wants to put in.
I have an old laptop running DietPi and thought about installing openHAB, but realized Iād have to install and configure extra components like Fronttail and Zigbee2mqtt manually. I could also install the openHABian scripts manually, but I donāt know if theyāll work on DietPi. I could also try putting openHAB into Docker.
Iām capable of figuring these things outāIām just not interested in doing that right now. Maybe that changes in the future, but for now Iām best off running openHABian on an RPi.
Yes, of course. A power outage just stops the writing operation, it doesnāt cause a surge that would fry the card. Thanks for the clarification, Rich!
I just use typical SanDisk and Lexar cards. I suspect the endurance cards might have mattered more before ZRAM was introduced to openHABian.
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Yes, I always recommend using these. The more āEnduranceā the better.
For everbodyās reference and education, hereās the collected āwisdomā on SD wearout and mitigation.
Corrupt FileSystems every 2-3 month? - Setup, Configuration and Use / Beginners - openHAB Community
The other recommendation Iām always giving is to use the SD mirroring feature of openHABian.
That way you will not need any SSD, nonetheless reach a better system availability level.
For rationale and details see this post.
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i think I am going a bit budget/easy setup and stick with the Pi. Thx everybody for the other suggestions though. Any opinions about getting a fan in the case?