Like in the Release Notes for every version?
If you do not read the provided change documentation you have nobody to blame but yourself. Hint: There is sometimes a section on breaking changes…
And many times we have seen users that blindly copied a solution that initially worked and then broke. Since they have no idea why it worked to start with, they expect us to support it.
Ok Bruce,
You are right and I’m wrong, thank you for ramming that down my throat. You would only have to read some of the noob posts and read the expert answers to understand where the OP and my comments come from…but you would first have to come off your defensive box and open your mind to a time when you were still learning.
As said above you can’t un learn something, but equally if you can’t learn something in the first place then you “don’t know what you don’t know” thereby an impossible situation for both you and I.
How can I help fix documentation when I don’t know what I’m trying to do in the first place? I could write down my findings in a post like this, only to be ridiculed by members like yourself.
Good one 
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The Release Announcements here actually have links to the Release Notes. Until the recent forum update broke things I would recommend using the search function to find them.
As said above you can’t un learn something, but equally if you can’t learn something in the first place then you “don’t know what you don’t know” thereby an impossible situation for both you and I.
Yes it can be near impossible to get everyone on the same page. Reading other people programs is like looking into their brain using a straw. I have no idea of the challenges you have had up until this point.
How can I help fix documentation when I don’t know what I’m trying to do in the first place? I could write down my findings in a post like this, only to be ridiculed by members like yourself.
Its only perception that you think it is ridicule in your inner monolog. Once you have learned little things as you go along make notes. Then look at the doc’s again and see how you can improve them as they are editable. Members like myself would appreciate the help in making it easier for the next beginner to pick it up where you left off. Jnr Dev simple mistake because of DOC
Some people learn by example. Some need it rammed down their throat. Some just need a gentle push to HA.
Microsoft pushed an update that deleted people personal files. No ones perfect and life is to short to hold a grudge. openHAB is fantastically frustrating at times. It dose prepare you or a job as a systems intergrader.
you know I hear this over and over. I am beginning to think maybe there does need to be some type of warning. What do you suggest? Seriously?
Should a big giant full screen pop up warning warning, you are about to do something that could potentially complete trash your perfectly running home automation system… proceed yes/no ??? Are you sure???
Are you sure you have read the release notes???
Perhaps if it should flash red???
Suggestions welcome
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Like in the Release Notes for every version?
If you do not read the provided change documentation you have nobody to blame but yourself. Hint: There is sometimes a section on breaking changes…
So you either have never updated a Linux server or what you are writing is completely hypocritical. Do you think it is feasible to do a apt upgrade or yum update only after checking the release notes of all 100+ packages to be updated? You think the nginx developers would talk like this when I complain that the upgrade from 1.15 to 1.16 broke my web server? So why does OpenHAB require such a special treatment?
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I administered and upgraded real UNiX servers for many years and I have done some of the toy Linux ones. I also manage some enterprise servers. In all cases I consult the Release Notes to see if there is major benefit if upgrading and what may break.
For my RADIUS server I upgrade a test machine to verify things will not break. If I find something unexpected broke that was not documented I contact the support people for either a fix or workaround.
I work in IT for my livelihood. If I did not read the documentation first I would not have a job.
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Really great point Alex, I have to agree. In many *nix environments, hitting the upgrade button is a no brainer, you just do it. And OpenHAB is different in that way. Seamless aptget upgrade all (or whatever) should not lead to now my home automation doesn’t work. I’ve been doing other stuff and almost unintentionally upgraded OpenHAB, which I did not intend (because I know the consequences)
So seriously, in my last post what should we do about it???
But in all fairness… if you are not leaping from 1.8 to 2.5.9, it shouldn’t be a HUGE issue… and help is kinda always here on the forum (even if you have a bad attitude)
frankly the help here on the forum is better then any comercial product could hope for but anyhow
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Yes, that’s how I once killed my OH irreversibly in the past. Wanted to update my OS and unintentionally updated OH (I think it was even 2.2 to 2.3, so it wasn’t just a patch upgrade). But honestly, I don’t know how to tackle this issue.
Version changes where the major version stays the same should “simply” (I know it’s not simple) not be braking, but that’s nothing that can be fixed by changing the upgrade process itself. When I had my OH install on a VM I always did a snapshot before (intended) OH upgrades, but I don’t know how to do that on a Pi now (MicroSD card is hard to reach in that rack enclosure). And infos from the release notes are usually displayed after the apt upgrade went through, so that’s too late.
Maybe the OH repo should be disabled by default and a dedicated oh-update would enable the repo, do an update, and then disable the repo again. Then at least the unintentional updates would be prevented.
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This sounds like the upgrades you are applying are “monolithic” (not sure if that’s the right word) and all software on that system is coming from a single vendor. In that case it’s of course mandatory (but not very difficult) to consult that one release notes document for any breaking change or whether there is at all a reason to upgrade (“if it ain’t broken, don’t fix it”).
However, I was talking about setups that are more “private” in nature, like a VPS with CentOS7+EPEL that runs your minecraft server or some Ubuntu install on your home PC. If you wait with an upgrade for a month you will have 100+ packages waiting to be upgraded. There is no way to check all those 100+ release notes for possibly breaking changes. You just expect that staying on the same release channel will not break anything.
Not always. I do know that providing services for tens of thousands of users is different than a personal private system. The developers write Release Notes and other documentation to help use the product effectively. It needs to be read for either type of system.
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Though a smarthome system isnt the same as a huge server park with thousand of clients. Its still a system which should be easy to update, without ruin it.
I have yet to see an update of openhab, which didnt leave somekind of issue afterwards. Oftens its very small issues. But there has been situations where it ended up in a total failour. Thats not good, and not trust worthy for future updates.
I think this is one of the most important parts in every kind of software system.
Agreed but users who do not read the attempts at documentation and then complain, jumping several major releases have no reason to complain. That was my point.
I stay here with the glimmer of hope there will be a more user-friendly fork of OH. I really think it is coming sooner rather than later.
To give my two cents: I have made many updates without breaking anything in openHAB. But… that was in good old OH1 days…
To be fair, there were many major changings in openHAB2, and a “minor” version change was always as much as a major version change in any other software. If using a versioning like Firefox, we would be in the 50s already. 
Since you were “seriously asking” I can throw one way to tackle it.
Multiple files that holds any known breaking changes in X addons that the new UI can check against. Something like…
You are using 2.3.0 openhab and wanting to go to 2.5.10 We found a match that X Y and Z addons That you use currently have listed breaking changes during that time frame. Display the change notes for only these addons for you to read. This means a much shorter list that only
Applies to you and a higher chance someone will actually read them.
For this to be implemented we would need.
- A new UI that can be changed easily, check we have this now in V3.
- An upgrade checking function that downloads the breaking changes in json files and does the check before displaying the results.
- The ability to do the upgrades from the UI. Probably not feasible for all platforms and this would not need to be done for the above to work.
Even with a warning system we would still get people complain that the breaking change exists and they Would get angry that they have to deal with an issue. You can never keep everyone happy.
Also This thread is not a good place due to its title to discuss anything. I don’t think I have seen the OP post a second time and it was their first post ever on the forum so let’s let this thread die and not feed trolls.
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Copy and past is quite a usual way to learn a new programming or configuration language. Of course we noobs try to understand what we are copying there. We even try to adapt is to our needs! But sometimes we do not see everything, fail and then. Yes. Then we are completely clueless.
A good tool would provide us with useful hints about where there issue is we made. In this respect OH is a complete disaster. It forces us to check with the forum where we may find some help. But honestly I would favour figuring it out myself - base on some good feedback on the OH system.
No, if you enable proper debug level logging you will get to see syntax errors with descriptions that are more or less as good as any compiler error messages.
But this you don’t know hence don’t get to see when you have not taken a structured approach and worked through the docs as you insist on a copy’n paste trial-and-error approach so that is what you have to change. A pity yes but clearly no disaster. In the end it’s not the tool’s fault but the user’s.
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I’m back. I have not looked at OpenHab since my last post. So my old Insteon HUB died. Time to upgrade to HUB2 (it’s about time anyway).
So after a day of hell, I have some cached setting for Insteon that keeps coming back even if I uninstall the binding and re-install it! I’ve tried to clear the cache (stop - clear - start) and it’s still there. I’ve heard horror stories of removing the cache. I watch the logs polling something that is not even configured. No Insteon configuration at all and it’s polling an old device!
Pro tip. When a binding is installed / uninstalled it should clear the cache associated with it.
So I’m assuming my installation is now toast. (cache all messed up). So I will go back to my attempt at moving to 2.5 and basically rebuild a 2.4 on that PI. I don’t have the stomach for what 2.5 delights await me.
171 devices / sensors (52 on OpenHab). I use OpenHab for device control of items I don’t want to develop for. (Insteon, Hue, Lutron, Wemo -> MQTT in and out). ISpy (have the code) ties in my cameras all to my own developed management system using SQL Server as a back end database. Every activation, temp reading, motion etc all stored. Android app control via MQTT.
Most of the devices are either ESP8266 / ESP32 / or Arduino of some sort. It keeps my 3D printers busy building cases etc.
Sorry to be a Debbie Downer but man, this is pain!!!
Here I go, get a coffee and a long, long day awaits me.
PS: A major flaw of mine is not asking questions. I know it hurt me in my career, but I would rather dig and find the solutions myself, reading what others have tried. Too old to change now 
PS: A major flaw of mine is not asking questions. I know it hurt me in my career, but I would rather dig and find the solutions myself, reading what others have tried. Too old to change now
Me too. I turn 66 next week. Much of OH complexity comes from its versatility and, to some extent, the dearth of detailed documentation. In regard to documentation, OH3 is even worse, IMO.
Home Assistant is likely easier but I had issues with the (lack of) quality of their code and , 189 months ago, unsupported devices in the openzwave binding.