Main Electrical Panel Recommendations

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(Angelos) #1

Hi All,

I will re-arrange my central panel soon to re-balance the internal electrical loads across the 3 Phases of the input electric power (EU mains 230/400 VAC) in my house.

Current Problem=L1 is overloaded

Since this is a rare occasion (re-wiring will be done by a certified electrical engineer):
What kind of “smart” hardware should I consider adding to the main panel?

I have discussed with @george.erhan to add an energy meter (3P) that will connect to my KNX Bus and then I will integrate the data into openHAB2. I will basically monitor the electrical installation using the measurements of this device.

Energy Meter Info

Any other cool ideas that I should consider for this re-wiring opportunity? :slight_smile:

Bonus rule

Ps: I will write an OH2 rule that sends an email complaint to the national energy regulator whenever the service provider causes disruptions due to unplanned maintenance and/or when the input voltage levels drop too low (I have these problems in my region…) :stuck_out_tongue:

(Micael ) #2

Well, if you are anyway doing the full reorganisation, wouldn’t you want to instead put a device that also reports the power of each output? It can be very handy in rules, especially if you have many outputs. I’m currently adding 3 phase/16A outputs to my car today, and will reach 36 measured lines by this.
This way, I can have reports of just about everything - “The owen/micro/dishwasher/tumbler/washing machine is ready”, as well as give warnings such as “the stove is on” when leaving the house (or kitchen). I have also added rules that powers off certain consumers (such as under floor heating in the kitchen and bathroom), if the load of one phase gets too high (higher than the mains fuses).
It is also very good for chasing unnecessary consumers… :slight_smile:

(Angelos) #3

You mean: a smart power meter installed in the main/sub panel for each internal single phase (230VAC) circuit?

I have about 30 internal circuits. 15 for outlets and 15 for lights.
The lights are controlled by KNX Actors but these actors don’t measure power consumption (anyway… these are low consumers since most lights are LED based).
The outlets are grouped per room in their own circuits (there is an auto-fuse in the subpanel)

Using a meter for each outlet circuit sounds like an overkill… I see the benefit but I don’t know about the cost.

Of course, there are the big consumers in the house also (mainly 3Phase): Air Conditioning Chiller, Central Boiler, De-Icing, etc. Maybe adding another power meter for each of those makes sense.

For the medium consumers (Oven, Fridge, Washing Machine, etc) I already use smart power strips at the appliance level (after the wall switch) and I monitor at each outlet level the consumption of each device.

Some example Grafana graphs for medium consumers:

(Micael ) #4

No, one meter that does lots of measurements. Such as the Brultech GEM, that I’m using.
It connects over ethernet or wifi, and measures 32 lines per box.
Since I just tripped the 32, I had to get a second box…
Maybe it is more expensive than your KNX box, though.

It is much better than the appliance meters in all respects!

(Angelos) #5

Now, this I like! great idea!

I will look into this, thanx!

Can you control the outputs? (turn on/off the circuit) or it’s only monitoring?

In this case: Should I skip (or keep) the main 3Phase power meter to monitor the master input to the house?

(Micael ) #6

No, it will only measure power/voltage/currents/temp/water. No control!

If you already have the 3 phase power meter, you can keep it if you like, but you can also use three GEM channels for “master input”.
You can also use mathematical sum of all the internal lines, but that will not be as precise, but it may be good enough.
I use my first three channels for ‘master input’.

(Angelos) #7

just bumping this one as I get closer to the installation date :slight_smile:

Device has arrived !

What did you build/automated today (with pictures)?
(Angelos) #8

and… yes… almost 1 year later… the 3 Phase Power meter has been installed :slight_smile:

configuring now the Group Addresses on KNX :stuck_out_tongue:

more news soon…

big thanx to @george.erhan

(Angelos) #9

hehehe… it’s soo nice when the first measurement arrives to openhab :slight_smile:

CL1 (Type=NumberItem, State=3.3840000629425048828125, Label=Current Phase 1, Category=energy,  Groups=[gEnergy])

Data Type: 14.019 = Electric Current (A) 4 byte float value

Grafana screenshots soon :blush:

==> events.log <==
2018-05-24 22:25:18.610 [ome.event.ItemCommandEvent] - Item 'CL1' received command 3.3229999542236328125

==> openhab.log <==
2018-05-24 22:25:18.611 [TRACE] [.binding.knx.internal.bus.KNXBinding] - Received command (item='CL1', command='3.3229999542236328125')
2018-05-24 22:25:18.612 [TRACE] [.binding.knx.internal.bus.KNXBinding] - Received update (item='CL1', state='3.3229999542236328125')
2018-05-24 22:25:18.612 [TRACE] [.binding.knx.internal.bus.KNXBinding] - We received this event (item='CL1', state='3.3229999542236328125') from KNX, so we don't send it back again -> ignore!
2018-05-24 22:25:18.613 [TRACE] [.binding.knx.internal.bus.KNXBinding] - found 1 compatible datapoints for item CL1 (org.openhab.core.library.types.DecimalType)
2018-05-24 22:25:18.616 [DEBUG] [.binding.knx.internal.bus.KNXBinding] - Wrote value '3.3229999542236328125' to datapoint 'command DP 3/1/1 CL1, DPT main 0 id 14.019, low priority'
2018-05-24 22:25:18.617 [INFO ] [                ] - send message to 3/1/1, wait for confirmation
2018-05-24 22:25:18.618 [DEBUG] [                ] - cEMI L-Data.ind from 1.2.200 to 3/1/1, low priority hop count 6 tpdu 00 80 40 54 ac 08
2018-05-24 22:25:18.618 [DEBUG] [                ] - KNXnet/IP Routing add to multicast loopback frame buffer: L-Data.ind from 1.2.200 to 3/1/1, low priority hop count 6 tpdu 00 80 40 54 ac 08
2018-05-24 22:25:18.618 [DEBUG] [                ] - KNXnet/IP Routing sending cEMI frame seq 0, non-blocking, attempt 1 (channel 0) 06 10 05 30 00 15 29 00 bc e0 12 c8 19 01 05 00 80 40 54 ac 08
2018-05-24 22:25:18.619 [DEBUG] [                ] - send to 3/1/1 succeeded
2018-05-24 22:25:18.619 [DEBUG] [                ] - process group write to 3/1/1 succeeded
2018-05-24 22:25:18.619 [DEBUG] [                ] - KNXnet/IP Routing discard multicast loopback cEMI frame: L-Data.ind from 1.2.200 to 3/1/1, low priority hop count 6 tpdu 00 80 40 54 ac 08
2018-05-24 22:25:18.657 [DEBUG] [al.bus.KNXBindingDatapointReaderTask] - Autorefresh: Waiting for new item in reader queue

(Angelos) #10

now I have to find out which load is causing the spikes on Phase 2 :slight_smile:
Phase balancing and optimization starts !

So many items to graph… :slight_smile:

(B K) #11

First of all - 3-phase power directly into your house electrical panel? Lucky!! We only get 2 here in the US (110/220 VAC) :frowning:

Nice graphs - I definitely need to start playing with Grafana…

For the spikes on phase 2, they look like typical inrush current spikes (charging up capacitors, starting up the motors in your HVAC/fridge compressor, fans, etc). Just start turning off your phase 2 loads one-by-one until the spikes disappear, and you’ll figure out which one is causing them. Though, there’s not much you can really do to avoid them, if the device isn’t current-limited already…

(Vincent Regaud) #12

I am not in the US but here in the UK one can get 3 phase power if one can afford the commercial rates and the installation!

(Angelos) #13

I have some 3-P loads also (central air conditioning unit, etc) so it was needed in my case.

(Angelos) #14

Full Grafana Panel is ready :slight_smile: (still need to customize it a bit)
Data are being collected now

(Vincent Regaud) #15

Very “Star Treck” !! :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

(Angelos) #16


/* Eelectron Three Phase Energy Meter PM30D01 KNX */
/* Current Measurement */
Number	CL1	"Current Phase 1 [%.4f A]"		<energy>	(gEnergy)	{ channel="knx:device:GIRA2167:PM30D01_C:Ch_CL1" }
Number	CL2	"Current Phase 2 [%.4f A]"		<energy>	(gEnergy)	{ channel="knx:device:GIRA2167:PM30D01_C:Ch_CL2" }
Number	CL3	"Current Phase 3 [%.4f A]"		<energy>	(gEnergy)	{ channel="knx:device:GIRA2167:PM30D01_C:Ch_CL3" }
/* Voltage Measurement */
Number	VL1N	"L1-N Voltage [%.2f V]"			<energy>	(gEnergy)	{ channel="knx:device:GIRA2167:PM30D01_V:Ch_VL1N" }
Number	VL2N	"L2-N Voltage [%.2f V]"			<energy>	(gEnergy)	{ channel="knx:device:GIRA2167:PM30D01_V:Ch_VL2N" }
Number	VL3N	"L3-N Voltage [%.2f V]"			<energy>	(gEnergy)	{ channel="knx:device:GIRA2167:PM30D01_V:Ch_VL3N" }
Number	VL12	"L1-2 Voltage [%.2f V]"			<energy>	(gEnergy)	{ channel="knx:device:GIRA2167:PM30D01_V:Ch_VL12" }
Number	VL23	"L2-3 Voltage [%.2f V]"			<energy>	(gEnergy)	{ channel="knx:device:GIRA2167:PM30D01_V:Ch_VL23" }
Number	VL31	"L3-1 Voltage [%.2f V]"			<energy>	(gEnergy)	{ channel="knx:device:GIRA2167:PM30D01_V:Ch_VL31" }
/* Power Measurement */
Number	ACPSum	"Active Power Sum [%.2f W]"		<energy>	(gEnergy)	{ channel="knx:device:GIRA2167:PM30D01_P:Ch_ACPSum" }
Number	ACPL1	"Active Power L1 [%.2f W]"		<energy>	(gEnergy)	{ channel="knx:device:GIRA2167:PM30D01_P:Ch_ACPL1" }
Number	ACPL2	"Active Power L2 [%.2f W]"		<energy>	(gEnergy)	{ channel="knx:device:GIRA2167:PM30D01_P:Ch_ACPL2" }
Number	ACPL3	"Active Power L3 [%.2f W]"		<energy>	(gEnergy)	{ channel="knx:device:GIRA2167:PM30D01_P:Ch_ACPL3" }
Number	APPSum	"Apparent Power Sum [%.2f W]"		<energy>	(gEnergy)	{ channel="knx:device:GIRA2167:PM30D01_P:Ch_APPSum" }
Number	APPL1	"Apparent Power L1 [%.2f W]"		<energy>	(gEnergy)	{ channel="knx:device:GIRA2167:PM30D01_P:Ch_APPL1" }
Number	APPL2	"Apparent Power L2 [%.2f W]"		<energy>	(gEnergy)	{ channel="knx:device:GIRA2167:PM30D01_P:Ch_APPL2" }
Number	APPL3	"Apparent Power L3 [%.2f W]"		<energy>	(gEnergy)	{ channel="knx:device:GIRA2167:PM30D01_P:Ch_APPL3" }
Number	RPSum	"Reactive Power Sum [%.2f W]"		<energy>	(gEnergy)	{ channel="knx:device:GIRA2167:PM30D01_P:Ch_RPSum" }
Number	RPL1	"Reactive Power L1 [%.2f W]"		<energy>	(gEnergy)	{ channel="knx:device:GIRA2167:PM30D01_P:Ch_RPL1" }
Number	RPL2	"Reactive Power L2 [%.2f W]"		<energy>	(gEnergy)	{ channel="knx:device:GIRA2167:PM30D01_P:Ch_RPL2" }
Number	RPL3	"Reactive Power L3 [%.2f W]"		<energy>	(gEnergy)	{ channel="knx:device:GIRA2167:PM30D01_P:Ch_RPL3" }
Number	PFSum	"Power Factor Sum [%.2f cos Φ]"		<energy>	(gEnergy)	{ channel="knx:device:GIRA2167:PM30D01_P:Ch_PFSum" }
Number	PFL1	"Power Factor L1 [%.2f cos Φ]"		<energy>	(gEnergy)	{ channel="knx:device:GIRA2167:PM30D01_P:Ch_PFL1" }
Number	PFL2	"Power Factor L2 [%.2f cos Φ]"		<energy>	(gEnergy)	{ channel="knx:device:GIRA2167:PM30D01_P:Ch_PFL2" }
Number	PFL3	"Power Factor L3 [%.2f cos Φ]"		<energy>	(gEnergy)	{ channel="knx:device:GIRA2167:PM30D01_P:Ch_PFL3" }
/* Energy Measurement */
Number	AEISum	"Active Energy Imported Sum [%.2f Wh]"	<energy>	(gEnergy)	{ channel="knx:device:GIRA2167:PM30D01_E:Ch_AEISum" }
Number	AEIL1	"Active Energy Imported L1 [%.2f Wh]"	<energy>	(gEnergy)	{ channel="knx:device:GIRA2167:PM30D01_E:Ch_AEIL1" }
Number	AEIL2	"Active Energy Imported L2 [%.2f Wh]"	<energy>	(gEnergy)	{ channel="knx:device:GIRA2167:PM30D01_E:Ch_AEIL2" }
Number	AEIL3	"Active Energy Imported L3 [%.2f Wh]"	<energy>	(gEnergy)	{ channel="knx:device:GIRA2167:PM30D01_E:Ch_AEIL3" }
Number	AEESum	"Active Energy Exported Sum [%.2f Wh]"	<energy>	(gEnergy)	{ channel="knx:device:GIRA2167:PM30D01_E:Ch_AEESum" }
Number	AEEL1	"Active Energy Exported L1 [%.2f Wh]"	<energy>	(gEnergy)	{ channel="knx:device:GIRA2167:PM30D01_E:Ch_AEEL1" }
Number	AEEL2	"Active Energy Exported L2 [%.2f Wh]"	<energy>	(gEnergy)	{ channel="knx:device:GIRA2167:PM30D01_E:Ch_AEEL2" }
Number	AEEL3	"Active Energy Exported L3 [%.2f Wh]"	<energy>	(gEnergy)	{ channel="knx:device:GIRA2167:PM30D01_E:Ch_AEEL3" }
Number	REISum	"Reactive Energy Imported S [%.2f VARh]"	<energy>	(gEnergy)	{ channel="knx:device:GIRA2167:PM30D01_E:Ch_REISum" }
Number	REIL1	"Reactive Energy Imported L1 [%.2f VARh]"	<energy>	(gEnergy)	{ channel="knx:device:GIRA2167:PM30D01_E:Ch_REIL1" }
Number	REIL2	"Reactive Energy Imported L2 [%.2f VARh]"	<energy>	(gEnergy)	{ channel="knx:device:GIRA2167:PM30D01_E:Ch_REIL2" }
Number	REIL3	"Reactive Energy Imported L3 [%.2f VARh]"	<energy>	(gEnergy)	{ channel="knx:device:GIRA2167:PM30D01_E:Ch_REIL3" }
Number	REESum	"Reactive Energy Exported S [%.2f VARh]"	<energy>	(gEnergy)	{ channel="knx:device:GIRA2167:PM30D01_E:Ch_REESum" }
Number	REEL1	"Reactive Energy Exported L1 [%.2f VARh]"	<energy>	(gEnergy)	{ channel="knx:device:GIRA2167:PM30D01_E:Ch_REEL1" }
Number	REEL2	"Reactive Energy Exported L2 [%.2f VARh]"	<energy>	(gEnergy)	{ channel="knx:device:GIRA2167:PM30D01_E:Ch_REEL2" }
Number	REEL3	"Reactive Energy Exported L3 [%.2f VARh]"	<energy>	(gEnergy)	{ channel="knx:device:GIRA2167:PM30D01_E:Ch_REEL3" }
/* Frequency Measurement */
Number	FR	"Frequency [%.2f Hz]"			<energy>	(gEnergy)	{ channel="knx:device:GIRA2167:PM30D01_F:Ch_FR" }

(Kim Andersen) #17

This is awesome…
I have a SMA Energy Meter, (there is a binding for it, as far as I know), which I´ll connect as well. Hope to do something simular, like yours.

(Kris K) #18

Does anyone know if you can intergrate these into an OH2 system without any other fronius gear?

(Rossko57) #19

That appears to be Modbus-RTU, so yes you’d be able to read data.

EDIT - I’ll take that back. Looks like the Modbus interface is provided to control a solar system, and not for “general enquiries”.

(Kris K) #20

Yep, most seem to require the solar invertor :frowning: