OpenHab Vs Other Home Automation Software

Hardware Home Automation
41

Individual technologies will use different approaches. That’s why I said it’s a rule of thumb. Zwave is not the only technology we are dealing with here. It could be anything and unless told otherwise, it’s probably a miss of two polling periods before marking something offline.

If you want a fault tolerant and redundant system, you need at least two of everything.

  • 2 sources of power (e.g. battery backup)
  • 2 sources of comms (e.g. internet and cell)
  • 2 OH instances running on two separate servers
  • etc.

How much all of this makes sense to do and deploy depends on what threats/risks you are mitigating with the alarm system. Without that up front analysis you are just “securing all the things!” There is no such analysis here so I have no choice but to go to the worst case scenario.

Far more of a professional system will be implemented with microcontrollers which are far more reliable and far less prone to errors, down time, power outages, security vulnerabilities, etc. That’s not to say that they are immune to these but they are not as susceptible to them as a general purpose computer.

A well designed alarm system will develop a system in away that looks at the entire system as a whole and compare that against the identified risks. Many risks can be solved through choices like architecture, what to use to implement using a microcontrol versus a general purpose computer, and the like.

I recognize that I am not an expert in physical security but I am an expert in computer security. The parallels are strong enough to convince me that even I, with the knowledge and expertise and experience that I have, do not know enough to actually design and deploy something even as good as the cheapest options from most of the long lived respected security system companies. I’m not convinced I could even beat SimpliSafe, and they are IMHO, a pretty poor system.

The big problem isn’t in knowing how to do it. The big problem is in knowing what to do and why.

Maybe this is all an argument between Impostor syndrome - Wikipedia and Dunning–Kruger effect - Wikipedia.

I’m not going to argue on this thread any more. I’ve said my peace. IMHO, anyone who says you can design and build a security system unless you are physical security expert, with OH or any other system, either doesn’t know enough to realize how little they know about the subject or they have such a low set of requirements/threats and risks they are trying to mitigate as to result in a system that many wouldn’t call an alarm system.

42

You dont add it to the Rpi. You add a adundant to the router/gateway.

Ehh, a typical buglar use 2-5 minutes in all to make a “successfull” buglary.
You´d be surprised how fast it goes.

43

You dont add it to the Rpi. You add a adundant to the router/gateway.

VPN between two Rpi.

Ehh, a typical buglar use 2-5 minutes in all to make a “successfull” buglary.
You´d be surprised how fast it goes

In common case 2-5 minutes burglar can take only on table things. But by 15-20 minutes it possible to take all values.

44

Why do you need 2 OH instances?? You dont have 2 proffesionel security systems, do you?
Ofcouse backup power is needed. Proffesionels security systems have backup power as well. If not, they are not worth anything, and very far from proffesionel in my opinion.
Redundant internet/comm is needed as well. Not all proffesionels systems have this. Most of them uses cell only.

I dont actually disagree on this. But the Rpi has proven highly realiable, with mostly bad coded software beeing the reason they fail. In worse case, you dont even have to connect your Rpi to the internet.
So by eleminating parts of the Rpi you dont want to use, you can create a rather powerfull system. Ofcouse you´ll have to eliminating it by the use of software, which is a risc, (all software is riscs).

Also its worth remembering, we´re talking about security systems for houses, normal families. It´s not highly advanced security systems, first of all, noone (or very few) can afford it, and second, it´s not needed in a ordinary family houses. Even with a highly advanced security system, the buglar will get in, just as well as in the ordinary house. Its only a matter of the purpose of getting in and how easy it is.
In ordinary houses, most buglaries happens impulsive. The buglar will breake whats needed to get in, then grap whatever he can in a very little time, and afterwards dissapear as fast as he can, regardless of a security system.

So whats really worth is making it as difficult as possible to get in, and when he is in, make it difficult for him to find whatever he is trying to find, (make it hard to navigate, stress him by the use of very loud noise/sounds, lights and fog canons). Thats the best “security system” you can get.
But it will not guantee anything, just as well as a proffesionel security system doesnt guantee anything.

45

Why?

As I said, you´d be surprise how little time it actually takes.

Noone use 15-20 minutes unless they can be absolutly sure they´ll not be caught, (which they cant).
It´s not a matter of stealing ALL values.

For most buglars its impulsive act. They enter a house knowing nothing about whats inside. They only have a slight idea. They spend a couple of minutes finding objects they can carry by hand and have a kind of value. Then they dissapear very fast.
The buglar is not interested in the objects they steal. They want money only. So they take whats easy to handle, and disspear within a very few minutes. Afterwards the objects is beeing sold.
If one house isn´t enough to “cover their needs”, they will just take another house. There are plenty of houses around.

It IS a simple as that, in most ordinary cases.

46

http://www.pki-electronic.com/products/jamming-systems/jammer-detector/

This is a good solution for jammers. You won’t know if a sensor is open or closed but you will know that someone is jamming your sensors

47

What if the Jammer Dector is beeing jammed? :smiley:

48

The jammer detector must be connected by cable :slight_smile: so, his job is to close a circuit if it is jammed. My raspy is cabled, so they have to find it and cut the cable :stuck_out_tongue:

49

But, the Jammer Dector is “Scanning” the wireless signal… What if this signal scanning is beeing jammed (I have to admit, I only read the brief text).

50

If the signal is jammed, the detector start the alarm. It’s a really simple method. You cannot avoid it. The detector listen to the frequency (2400mhz for wifi), if the frequency is free, it’s all ok. If something is saturating the frequency it’s start the alarm. So, if you try to jamm the detector you trigger the alarm

51

I love openHAB, use it at home and popularize wherever I can but I would not use it as a core system that operates a crucial logic of how my smart home operates. In my opinion even if it works in a stable manner once in a while it causes troubles. And there is a constant development happening which makes you want to upgrade frequently that makes this worse. This never happened to my embedded alarm system that probably has an uptime of years. I have it hooked up to openHAB to know when it is armed, triggered and so on. I personally use openHAB as an integration system for various devices that gives me one look and feel to operate my smart home. It is unbeatable for that purpose.

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52

I doing much the same. I have very stable home automation backbone, BTicino BUS system, with its own scenario controller doing most of the automatic stuff. Its basic compared to the openHAB possibilities but its reliable and I don’t tinker with it much.

I use openHAB more as a top level control tool, for visualisation and reporting, and a means to integrate Alexa voice commands and my other home automation devices into one complete experience. Its the icing on the cake and very nice too. Its ability to bring together a miriad of devices is the reason I chose it over other home automation platforms. The end result is impressive and it does some cool things but if it falls over my house automation will continue on without it anyway.

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53

Ofcouse not… Cause you are not threating it the same.
There are no constant development going on, and no frequent updates either.
Lets assume you threated your openhab system the same. What makes you think it wouldnt run for years as well? So infact, it´s your choice, which is making it less stable.

It´s important for the thread, when comparing, you´ll do it right (the same). Otherweise you can not compare. Its not fair to compare it like you did… Its like saying, your 50 year old car lasts way better than a new and modern cars, cause it has never been out for a drive. Makes no sense!

54

I have exact the same. IHC as backbone, and openhab build on top to monitoring (and a little control between devices which cant connect directly to IHC).

But it doesnt mean I dont trust openhab. It´s just easier to let IHC do the primary logic, and then keep other stuff to openhab.
My openhab system runs pretty stable. When it break down (doing wrong stuff) it´s mainly cause by me doing changes. If I didnt do that, it would probably continue to run for years without issues!

55

I use micrcontrollers for all my critical stuff. They are in turn controlled by openHAB and monitored by openHAB but can work independently.

For example, for a garage door and the sensors that stop it closing if a beam is triggered or an end-stop is reached are all controlled by a microcontroller. The door can be opened and closed through openHAB but if anything goes wrong, the microcontroller will stop the door moving.

I don’t have a professional burglar alarm but in a simple way of making our house a little less attractive to burgle than the ones next door, I can ask Alexa to check whether all the windows and doors are shut before we leave the house. I can also get openHAB to turn on and off a few lamps when we are away and open and close a few shutters too at suitable times in the morning and evening.
If I ever did get a proper alarm, I’d still see openHAB as complementing this.

56

I’ve been wondering about this. I have tried using a reed type contact sensor, made by xiaomi. The problem is that it can detect “closed” even when the door / window is “almost” closed but not quite latched.

For my windows, once they’re closed fully, they will latch on and cannot be opened from the outside. However for my doors, they can be fully closed but not locked. So how do you detect that all doors are closed and locked, without replacing all the locks with smart locks (which may be impossible to do given the various different kinds of locks that different doors require)

57

@JimT that is a great question! Only way I know is to start drilling on the frame and add more sensors.

I know once I saw a sensor that could be drilled into the dead bolt side of the frame and detect the pin in the hole. Didn’t seem like a retrofit option so I quit reading.

Only easy way I know would be a camera at every door to see the position. Second option more sensors.

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58

Not necessarily how I use it, but the main difference in my opinion is in maturity (how long it was used/tested and fixed) of the solution given the complexity of the system and the frequency of updates that keep the maturity from growing. This could be remedied by having more thorough validation focused on practical use cases. In But in the open source environment in which we operate what openHAB gives us is nevertheless simply amazing.

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59

I agree, this would be alot better. Unfortunatly its not really possible in an open source project, which contains lots of complexibilty as well as many kinds of external codes (bindings etc) and coders… It would take forever for something to get through the validation process.

It is, and I will stand by my point. It is (or can be) just as safe as any other security system. You just need to know exactly what you´re doing, and why. (That´s a huge task though, and not for everybody to mess with. That I´ll admit).

60

Swiss/German windows can be in one of three positions - open with the side hinge, open with the bottom hinge (tilt) or closed and locked.
The internal mechanism is such that if in the tilt position and normal opening positions, the window stays in a sufficiently open position that the sensors are triggered. Gravity helps too.
The handle cannot be put in the locked position without the window actually being locked.

I don’t think I’ve had a window that is open that hasn’t triggered the sensor. I’m using a mixture of Aqara reeds, wired reeds and Homematic optical sensors but Homematic also do sensors that are attached to the handle and indicate the handle position and thus whether the window is open or closed.

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