Which Z-Wave Radiator Valves (TRVs)?


(Rafal Lukawiecki) #1

I would like to find out which z-wave radiator valves (TRVs) have been successfully used with OpenHAB by anyone who reads this forum. I am interested in both setting the desired temperature (set point) as well as interrogating the valve for its current temperature and position. I am also interested in good-looking, simple wall-mounted temperature controllers. So far, I have only seen these:

  • Danfoss LC-13 (apparently it is not possible to query it)
  • Popp (bi-directional, but has anyone used it?)
  • StellaZ (supposedly bi-directional)
  • Eurotronic Comet
  • Devolo Home Control

Anyone using the wall-mounted Devolo Home Control Room Thermostat as a user interface to your system?

Many thanks for your wisdom.


(Stefan) #2

Hi Rafal,

the Popp and the Devolo valves are both re-branded Danfoss devices. The Devolo has the additional function to report the current temperature (maybe also the Popp device, don’t know about that). Good-looking? Well, for me there’s only one good looking device: Danfoss (or the OEMs).

The Danfoss LC-13 is used quite often here (I’m using three of them). Working good. In case, you didn’t already knew: You can see which devices are supported, if you take a look at the database for the zwave-binding:

http://www.cd-jackson.com/index.php/zwave/zwave-device-database/zwave-device-list

Danfoss LC-13 (of course) is supported, also Devolo (listed under Danfoss). It seems that Popp isn’t supported at the moment. But this can easily be done. And yes, sadly the Danfoss LC-13 can’t be queried.

I’ve also seen people talking about the StellaZ and the Comet here. But they seem to be a little tricky to handle. And personally, I don’t think they are looking nice. :wink:

Regarding the wall-mounted control: Yes, I am using it. But again: This is originally a Danfoss device. ("Danfoss RS room sensor). And this is what I use. I don’t think that the Devolo OEM is already supported. I’ve integrated it to be exactly what you said: A user interface. A couple of rules and you are ready to go.


(Bart Janssen) #3

Danfoss lc13 works perfect


(blank) #4

Hi, StellaZ user here.
Looking good? No!
They can only be controlled via Z Wave, no local control possible. They report back the temperature, but they can not be queried. The TRVs will initiate communication. Intervals can be configured with Habmin. So far they are working well. The one really bad thing is that the battery levels are configured for standard batteries. I’m using rechargeables which means the TRVs report them as empty although they have still quite a lot of juice left in them…

Good luck.


(Sebastian) #5

Hi, StellaZ user here,too. It is definately a pain in the ass.
If you want to try one I can sell you mine! :wink:
Just google, I think there are some reviews available.
Maybe you can go with the “Quibino Flush PWM Thermostat” and a simple Valve?
This is where I am heading now, but it requires stationary power.


(Garry McCandless) #6

I’m also a StellaZ user, I’ve only got two at present but want to get all of my radiators sorted. Although I’m not sure I’ll continue with the StellaZ TRV.

As they don’t auto report their status you have to poll them within your zwave configuration. For this to work reliable you have to set the wakeup to 240 seconds and the zwave polling to 240 seconds. This means that batteries don’t last very long at all. Not being able to make changes to the TRV at the radiator is both a good and bad thing. The good part being that you have to make the effort to change a setting so no accidental changes. The bad part means that the Wife Acceptance Factor is very low, unless your have a wall mounted control panel setup.

I want to change all of my TRV’s to be zwave controllable but don’t feel the StellaZ is the right product for the job. For me the TRV needs to do a few simple things:

Report it’s status to the zwave network
Simple manual controls (WAF)
Look pretty


(Rafal Lukawiecki) #7

Thanks everyone. There is one other thing that is not clear to me. Can any of these devices provide a signal to OpenHAB that they demand hot water, which I could process into a relay switching operation that would command my boiler to turn on and off? I am thinking of Popp, Danfoss, and Devolo, I think, because of your feedback.

@jaydee73, it looks like Popp is in the database you linked (thank you!), listed as Danfoss, see here: http://www.cd-jackson.com/index.php/zwave/zwave-device-database/zwave-device-list/devicesummary/449

Many thanks for all your suggestions.


(Stefan) #8

Yes, you are right. I haven’t seen this.

Regarding the hot water signal: I really don’t think this is possible. At least not with the Danfoss/Devolo/Popp devices. They only reports the current temperature (Danfoss not, but the other ones). I don’t know what’s possible with Stella or Comet.

Maybe you should have a look at a solution which is more of a general approach. Nest or stuff like that?


(Garry McCandless) #9

You could achieve something using a bunch rules to check the reported temperature against the current set point and if then switch a relay to either switch on or off. The problem being that any temperature sensor on the TRV will be influenced by the surrounding ambient temperature, so you could end up with false positives to deal with.

In my view the better solution is to have a dedicated room thermostat that also controls the TRV set point. Associating this with a boiler control unit, which can also be manually controlled. This is the setup I have partly in place and it’s being to work quite well. Needs further fine tuning though.


(Rafal Lukawiecki) #10

Indeed, I was thinking of using wall thermostats for this purpose, but, ideally, I would also want to know the state of a valve. I thought, perhaps incorrectly, that the valves know if they are open/closed/in-between. By querying that I would have an additional data point when making a decision if to fire up the boiler or not.

On the other hand, does anyone know if the Devolo Home Control Room Thermostat, or the Danfoss equivalent of it (the round one with a large, simple display) can be queried for actual temperature vs set temperature, or something like “heat needed” etc? Thank you.


(Stefan) #11

Yes, the room sensor reports the current temperature to the controller, based on the defined wakeup period and based on certain threshold values you can define. And if the set temperature is changed on the room sensor, of course this will also be reported to the controller.


(Kristof Rado) #12

Hi!
I’m also looking for good TRVs and I came up with LC-13, which is the only one affordable and I’m able to order it in my country. How is it working for you? I have read in the database that it is not listening permanently, but wakes up after a specified time. Doesn’t that means that you have to wait in average wakeup period/2 to receive the commands sent from openHab (sorry I don’t have any Z-Wave devices yet, so these might be noob questions…)?
Also it only reports the target temperature through Z-Wave? But it has a temp sensor, right? Otherwise how it “knows” when to turn on/off?

Thanks!


(Garry McCandless) #13

I have a bunch of these around my home. No real problems to report, they seem to work as expected. I’ve not really looked into the engineering behind them, they look good and do the job.


(Kristof Rado) #14

But are you sending commands from openHab to these valves? Maybe you know what wakeup time did you specify? (It says 1 hour seems okay, but if I don’t misunderstood that, it means that it can only communicate with openHab once/hour).


(Garry McCandless) #15

Yes I adjust them over the course of a day, mainly from the Living Room thermostat. I have the wakeup set to 1800 seconds. That gives me good enough control and flexibility over the battery length.

How often do you feel that you need to change your radiator temperature settings?


(Kristof Rado) #16

The problem is that I don’t really change at all, wasting lots of energy when we are not at home… I didn’t had any other device yet, but 1800 seconds seems okay for me I would go with a similar setup like this.
Just two questions left for me, if you can reply:

  • With this wakeup period what is the usual battery lifetime?
  • Does it reports the actual temperature back through Z-Wave? I’m asking that because it would be great that I can use that value in rules and also set the temperature based on that one…

(Garry McCandless) #17

I get about 10 to 12 months from the batteries with my setup. No the actual temperature isn’t reported by the LC-13’s.

An alternative that does report the temperature is; StellaZ from Eurotronics. I’ve got two of these, they don’t have any display and don’t look as good as the LC-13 does. But you have a little more functionality, such as the ambient temperature.


(Frank) #18

This product does not seem to be available anymore.
An alternative could be the Spirit Z-Wave Plus from Eurotronics.
The main reason I bought three Spirits is that this TRV supports FLiRS.


(Christos) #19

Well there is the popp TRV which is like the Danfoss LC13 plus it reports the temperature as well. I am thinking of buying a few of those for testing. Anybody has any experience with them ?
What good is the temperature report from the TRV anyway? I doubt it is really accurate as it is next to the radiators
I have temperature sensors in every room so in theory I can get the temp from those and adjust the TRV right ?
I bought the fibaro FGT-001 TRVs when they were released but they do not deliver as promised unfortunately. Although they do have a lithium battery that is rechargeable and they are always online / responsive they do not work well because the firmware is buggy.


(HomeAutomation) #20

I’m a eurotronics spirit user. What should I report. They are working, are very loud, and their calculation of the valve position is very bad. Most of the time it is too hot in the room.

see this log, target temperature is 18°C! and valve is still open:

2018-11-30 10:08:47.249 [ome.event.ItemCommandEvent] - Item 'Radiator02_heatpoint' received command 18.0
2018-11-30 10:08:48.664 [vent.ItemStateChangedEvent] - Radiator02_heatpoint changed from 18.5 to 18
2018-11-30 10:08:48.843 [vent.ItemStateChangedEvent] - Radiator02_Valve changed from 0.38000000 to 0.14000000
2018-11-30 10:08:48.913 [vent.ItemStateChangedEvent] - Radiator02_Temperature changed from 20.96 to 21.05
2018-11-30 10:08:51.431 [vent.ItemStateChangedEvent] - Radiator02_Valve changed from 0.14000000 to 0.29000000
2018-11-30 10:12:51.434 [vent.ItemStateChangedEvent] - Radiator02_Temperature changed from 21.05 to 21.22
2018-11-30 10:30:59.415 [vent.ItemStateChangedEvent] - Radiator02_Valve changed from 0.29000000 to 0.20000000
2018-11-30 10:42:59.408 [vent.ItemStateChangedEvent] - Radiator02_Valve changed from 0.20000000 to 0.14000000
2018-11-30 10:54:59.406 [vent.ItemStateChangedEvent] - Radiator02_Valve changed from 0.14000000 to 0.09000000
2018-11-30 10:58:59.418 [vent.ItemStateChangedEvent] - Radiator02_Temperature changed from 21.22 to 20.78
2018-11-30 11:06:59.396 [vent.ItemStateChangedEvent] - Radiator02_Valve changed from 0.09000000 to 0.05000000
2018-11-30 11:12:59.406 [vent.ItemStateChangedEvent] - Radiator02_Temperature changed from 20.78 to 20.25