Works With Nest - Deprecating on August 31, 2019

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I totally agree and is why I chose the protects in the first place. Just so annoyed.
It’s not ‘just’ integration with openhab. Smart phone notifications are ok but if no ones home and the primary users phones are on silent, an autodialler to a few contacts to tell em my house is going to burn down doesn’t go a miss

The thing I find annoying about the Nest Protect is that they haven’t bothered exploring its potential. There are lots of great features that could have been introduced (such as reaching out to emergency contacts) for the benefit of all users, but development has been non-existent.

It’s also surprising to me that well-known life-safety brands haven’t responded. The Nest Protect showed that you can do more than just sounding a really loud alarm…but the mass-produced brands would still rather sell you a cheap detector that does the bare minimum.

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I think this can also be said for the Nest thermostat and the Nest temperature sensors. Geofencing, Home/Away scheduling, a consumer interface for the ETA feature, flexibility in assigning the temperature sensors to a more granular schedule. They changed the way people think about thermostats and then they sat on their thumbs.

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I’m more than annoyed about this too. First weatherUnderground, now Google. My OpenHAB pushes the Nest to ‘away’ within 10 minutes when nobody’s at home. Left to it’s own devices the Nest thermostat takes around an hour, so Google have not only sold me a product they have just removed a key feature from, they want to waste my money too

I also faced this problem but I found the Heatit devices
https://www.heatit.com/heating-control/floor-heating-thermostats/heatit-7s/

Nice looking stat, but it appears to be a heating only thermostat. Bummer they don’t make a Heat/Cool model.

got the same email… nice, i bought 6 nest protects in the last 3 weeks… im glad i don’t have a nest thermostat here.

It is very pretty but it appears to be wifi only, requires a cloud service, and offers no API that I can find so no OH integration.

image

I have forced air so that won’t work. But there is a Honeywell WiFi model that requires their cloud service that looks very similar.

But once again I’ll be stuck with a cloud service for integration. But at least there is a binding.

The appearance matters to me somewhat because it’s almost the first thing one sees when the come through the front door.

That one looks good too but it won’t work with forced air natural gas heating which is what I have.

When you look at listicles like this or this with one exception (the Remotec which being all black would stand out too much on the wall) they are all white rectangles with a calculator style LCD display, or if they do look OK they only work with certain brands of heaters or require an account with a third party service.

It really appears I need to either go with another cloud based service or live with an ugly thermostat that looks like it hasn’t changed designs in the past 20 years. :frowning:

I can’t get too mad at Nest. I never paid for the Nest in the first place (promotional gift from my power company). But I have grown accustomed to how easy it is to use and how unobtrusive it is on the wall.

I’m curious if anyone here works for any of these companies making these “cloud required” thermostats? I’m honestly curious why this seems to be a nearly universal requirement to use the companies cloud and why almost universally the thermostats have no local connection possibilities.

I think most people will say something like “profit” or “they want your data”, but is that really true? What data do they really have, hey someone is home as 1234 Qwerty Street and what temp do they like? Lets say they compile that data and try to sell it, who is buying and why?

I guess another option is trying to lock you into their ecosystem, so you buy only their products. I suppose that could be a thing.

Another I’m thinking of, is it just too complicated for most people to connect these to some kind of system? So they offer the system?

I imagine maintaining servers all over the world and the security of those servers can be quite costly. I’m really curious what the motivation is.

Anybody think we might be overreacting a bit here? Google did say they were rolling it into the “Actions on Google SmartHome” api. I know it’s concerning not knowing any of the details, but assuming they just provide a slightly different way to access an (possibly improved) API, it shouldn’t matter too much.

Obviously our beloved Nest binding would have to be re-written, but I’m hoping this isn’t the end of the world. As long as we can read back the data and write data via the Google Actions API, it doesn’t matter so much to me if the API is directly tied to the Nest Device or Google’s assistant.

Maybe some neglected devices (looking at you Nest Hello) might get access to APIs that weren’t previously available like Doorbell Pushed!!!

Possibly pie in the sky especially considering we are dealing with Google, but let’s not jump the gun just yet.

Echo most of the comments above, it’s annoying that they are closing this as I’ve had my nest thermostat working perfectly but I guess as the number of API calls goes up so does the cost and payload their end to cope. Plus it gives Google control on what can / can’t happen with devices.

I inherently dislike Google for it’s data mining and it’s desire to serve me stuff it assumes I want so I’ll also be on the look out for another thermostat in due time, I’m just glad that I haven’t bought the protects and cams that I had planned to recently.

The only hope I suppose is that in general google seem pretty open with APIs for their google docs, email etc so maybe once the dust has settled they will open it back out again???

I think this is probably it. The vast majority of people don’t want to put time and effort into setting up OH or even Smartthings. They just want someone to install a thermostat for them and be able to control it remotely. Cloud control is the only way to accomplish that securely for the average user. Meanwhile, local control doesn’t offer any significant benefit for those users, so it’s not worth baking it in.

This is frustrating for the few of us who want more from our tech, but it’s really the best approach from a business standpoint. If the point is to make money, you need to focus on specs and features that will generate sales with your primary audience. So, it’s worth spending money on servers for cloud control, but not worth adding local control.

With this in mind, I can understand Google not wanting to put continued effort into Works with Nest if they feel like it’s holding them back and not benefiting most users. But it’s still annoying that they’re removing a feature that benefited a subset of users.

We should also keep in mind that Google makes decisions that hurt a small number of users all of the time (Google+, Inbox, etc.). It’s part of doing business in any organization, and end users often don’t think anything of it until we’re affected.

Not based on my experience with lack of response to features & support for their existing devices. Plus, now is the time to turn up the volume so they understand that keeping the current or ensuring that the alternative is provided with the necessary features and with sufficient lead time to create the 3rd party solutions (e.g., write a new binding). Without the noise, I am almost certain that they’ll drag their feet like I’ve seen in the past.

I definitely agree that they should be much more specific on their intentions and the kind of APIs available to customers. Just hoping it’s not another Logitech fiasco (who did eventually reverse course). The fact that they are even mentioning an API for customers is an improvement on that front.

I wonder how much of the slowness was attributed to this in-flux nature they’ve been operating under. The developer portal for nest has essentially been on hold for months and months with no intention to introduce new APIs.

Look at the use cases and target audiences for these devices. They are targeted at mostly non-technical users who want to be able to control their devices from anywhere. These users are not going to be able to set up and configure safely remote access to their devices on their own so the only solution is some sort cloud service. Heck, that’s the same reason why we have the myopenhab.org service.

Supporting these users with this use case is a requirement to be successful so the cloud service isn’t an option.

Once you have this cloud service, you’ve already developed an API through which your phone apps inter-operate with the devices so a few of such services will do the minimal extra work to expose that API so others can interact with their devices.

Developing and documenting a local only API interface is going to be almost 100% added cost over what they need to develop in the first place with the cloud service and while we home automation enthusiasts may be vocal, we are a tiny minority of the marketplace. It just doesn’t make good business sense to them to implement a local control API.

It is costly but it’s a cost they have to support anyway. But there are not enough users like those of us on this forum who would not buy a product if it requires a cloud service to make it worth the additional cost of providing a local API.

They have also stated elsewhere that there is only a select few pre-selected companies that will be able to access Nest products through the Actions on Google SmartHome. IFTTT has already announced they are not among the lucky few. If IFTTT can’t use it what hope does OH have?

Google also has a reputation of killing off a service before or without a fully realized service to take it’s place. I have no expectations that I’ll be able to, for example, turn on the house fan when the temp upstairs gets too much warmer than the basement.

Having said all of that, people really should look into OrangeAssist (linked above) as Lucky has developed a way for OH to send commands to Google Assistant which just might be sufficient for at least use cases like I describe above. It won’t be a complete replacement though.

Based on past behaviors of Google, I have no expectation that they will have an API in place that we are allowed to use by September 1 when the Nest API get’s turned off. I at least am not willing to take that risk.

It’s worth noting that the troubles at Nest have been well documented for years. As a company they were in trouble before Google bought them. After Google bought them the troubles and lack of releasing of new products of features continued to be a problem. This action could be as much about “cleaning house” and eliminating Nest as a separate entity within Google as it has to do with anything technical.

Decisions like these are rarely made for technical reasons. It’s usually for business or political reasons.

Google as an organization is particularly infamous for doing this. See https://killedbygoogle.com/ to get the full scale of Google’s scatter brained approach. Many of those services they’ve killed have no alternatives, or the alternatives are far inferior to what was killed. It is starting to hurt their bottom line as many who pay attention to this sort of thing are starting to avoid Google services because we can’t rely on their continued existence.

I don’t know what I’m going to do when Google Music get’s killed. Youtube Music still lacks support for migrating my playlists and thumbs up ratings or support for adding my collection to the cloud.

I highly suspect this is because the decision to kill the Works with Nest API was made months and months ago. They are just now getting around to announcing it.

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A DIRECT integration with OH may be unlikely, but doesn’t IFTTT still have access to the Google Assistant API?

Assuming that all that is affected is that instead of controlling the device directly we are using an API to “ask” the Assistant to make that change then I think we might be ok.

Everything is assumptions at this point. And you are absolutely correct that Google does not have a good track record for things like this.

I think the difference with this and Logitech is that Logitech was trying to close a security hole that was never advertised as a feature. Something had to be done to protect users, and they did it. When the automation community made noise, Logitech realized that they could turn the security hole into a feature for the small number of people who want it. The whole thing presented very logically: company fixes security risk, fix affects some users negatively, company adapts for those users.

In this case, Google has taken something that was a feature (though one aimed at developers, not consumers) and decided to end it. It was a strategic decision, same as Lowes shutting down Iris. It’s very likely that they already considered the impact on the automation community in making this decision. If not, someone isn’t doing their job.

As Rich notes, I suspect that a lot of the stalled development stems from in-house politics over the past few years.

Exactly this. Per my earlier comment, I’m really surprised that they left IFTTT out in the cold.

I’m personally very pragmatic about Google. I don’t mind giving them data in exchange for the many free services I’ve benefited from over the years: search, GMail, Chrome, Drive, Docs, Android Auto, Google Assistant, etc… They also offer a free enterprise version of GSuite for non-profit organizations, which I’ve set up for the charity I volunteer with. I may not like everything they do, but the positives have far outweighed the negatives. That makes it a little easier for me to swallow when they make weird decisions I don’t agree with.

I think you might have missed post #15.

My guess is that Google is planning upgrades to Works with Assistant that they think will account for most of the functionality third parties currently enjoy. Whether that’s true or not will determine how accurate the current reactions are. But for the moment, they’ve chosen to give the impression that specific needs will not be served. I don’t think anyone’s misreading that.

No.

See https://www.engadget.com/2019/05/07/google-to-end-works-with-nest/

The new program will allow data sharing between connected devices and apps, but only for a handful of tightly screened partners, Google’s Rishi Chandra told Variety . While that’s potentially helpful for security and privacy, it’s also likely to break a number of smart home tie-ins – including some you may miss.

Update 05/07/19 8:01PM ET: Based on an email IFTT sent Nest will be retiring its Works with Nest program on August 31st, 2019. Nest Thermostat, Protect and Cam will all be affected.

Several IFTTT users above have also reported getting an email from IFTTT that Nest support will be going away.

From https://variety.com/2019/digital/news/google-works-with-nest-discontinued-1203207335/

But the biggest change is the discontinuation of “Works with Nest,” a program that allowed device makers and app developers to build things that would interact with Nest products. Google is replacing it with a more restrictive “Works with Google Assistant” program later this summer, and Chandra said that it would give a small numbers of thoroughly vetted partners access to additional data if customers explicitly allowed such data sharing.

One impact of these changes, according to Chandra: “It will break IFTTT.” IFTTT, short for “if this then that,” is a web-based service that allows users to build a wide variety of custom integrations for smart home products. It’s especially popular with early adopters, who use the platform to fine-tune specific tasks across multiple devices.

IFTTT can for instance be used to change the temperature on a user’s thermostat when they leave the office, or operate obscure smart home devices not officially supported by Google with voice commands from a Google smart speaker. Chandra said that the company planned to replace much of IFTTT’s functionality with its own Google Assistant routines.

From https://appleinsider.com/articles/19/05/07/google-to-phase-out-works-with-nest-program-in-favor-of-more-stringent-privacy-policies

Rishi Chandra, vice president of product at Nest, said the change is part of a broader shift in the company’s stance on consumer privacy. Whereas Works with Nest allows a large number of manufacturers and developers access to data sharing framework, Works with Google Assistant is more restrictive. Under the incoming program, Google is granting only a small number of vetted partners access to data gathered by Nest products, and only with express consent from end users.

The updated policy promises to have wide-reaching ramifications for smart home devotees invested in the Nest ecosystem. For one, Chandra confirmed “[i]t will break IFTTT,” or “if this, then that,” a popular automation service used to connect apps and devices through easy-to-use applets.

Instead of IFTTT, Google intends to implement similar features through Google Assistant routines.

I could go on. The take away though is IFTTT will no longer work with Nest. We can use Google Assistant Routines, but there is no way to kick off a GA routine from OH as far as I know and even if we could, they won’t allow us access to any of the sensor data collected by Nest products since we are not among the small number of vetted partners.

Net-net - This is a cluster for DIY home automation!

Does anyone know if the Alexa skill uses the same work with Nest API? I assume it does, it will be interesting if Google will allow Amazon to have access to the new Google API… If Alexa integration goes away along with OH, then I’m left with 3 thermostats and an app to control them. I’ve always wanted to design and make my own MQTT based thermostats with ESP8266 and some Nextion LCD touch displays. This may be a good time to start that project.

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