ZWave Text Config of Association Groups

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Hey there!
I’m using a lot of Homeseer HS-WD200+ dimmers in my home. I also have a lot of 3-way wiring (that can dim a light from either dimmer). Now these devices (if you’ll remember my earlier posts) allow me to synch up the two dimmers’ internal states if I add both to association group #2 (aka “Companion Sync”). That meant that within Habmin, I used to add DimmerA to DimmerB’s “Companion Sync” Association Group field and vice versa. This seemed to work well.

Now I’ve moved all the configs to text files (and rebuilt the network with a new controller after a storm)… and I’m not seeing examples of association group stuff… Here’s the relevant .things section…

Thing zwave:homeseer_hswd200511_05_011:controller:node25 “Downstairs Kitchen Dimmer At Hall” (zwave:serial_zstick:controller) [ node_id=25 ]
Thing zwave:homeseer_hswd200511_05_011:controller:node26 “Downstairs Kitchen Dimmer At Stairwell” (zwave:serial_zstick:controller) [ node_id=26 ]

I’m not sure how to config the association group stuff now… I assume that when openhab starts that the values get uploaded to the dimmers and they remember them until over-written (since the dimmers seemed to stay synched even if my controller was off)… I also assume it’s necessary to add these associations to these config files and thus me currently failing to have the associations in the text config could mean that it removes the associations on openhab startup… Anyhow any context / explanations or help with my .thing config would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance!

Association groups are strictly between Z-Wave devices, independent of OH.

I don’t think it’s entirely independant of OpenHab… cause Habmin is how I used to configure these association groups… Just curious about how I do it now that I’m using text files rather than Habmin…

You use Habmin.

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Except that once I start configuring the things with text files, they’re no longer in the database, so the Habmin configs seem not to take anymore… refresh the page and they’re gone, forgotten.

I configure the Things with Habmin and then Items with text files. It is strongly recommended to use HABmin to configure Z-Wave Things.

Understood. However, I don’t want to use the database for anything. Text files means that all I need to backup the server is make a copy of those tiny, simple text files, rather than a less-transparent database, or a whole virtual machine. I have everything else working via the text files… Does anyone know how to specify association groups in the .things file? Seems curious that this would be the only major capability of Habmin that is omitted from the zwave binding… there’s gotta be a way to do it… anyone?

This is not possible. It’s not possible to configure the ZWave binding through text files.

It’s nothing to do with HABmin - it is a limitation of openHAB - it prevents configuration through HABmin (or any other UI) when text files are used.

Sorry - there isn’t. It can only be configured if the things are configured through the UI.

OpenHAB2 core insists on using the JSONdb database. I guess it is time to look for a different system. All that I know of use some sort of database.

Maybe there’s a misunderstanding here. The associations aren’t stored in openHAB - they are stored on the device, so the database isn’t really applicable in any case.

I am just stating that using OH without the database is impossible because OH uses the database even if all your configuration is in files.
The Z-Wave network data is stored on the controller as the authoritative source but it is still put into the database as Thinga before OH can use them.

That’s fine - I wasn’t responding to your message - I was responding to @MindMusic who I thought may misunderstand what is happening wrt the database when it comes to setting associations.

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Yeah, I was thinking that might be the case… I get it now and see the difference between configuring openhab to act as a hub, and initializing the things within it… Thanks for that!

So now I just need a way to config the associations without using Habmin (cause I wanna keep my text thing configs). Was looking at ZenSys Tools… but it only seems to let me make associations for Group#1. Still researching an option for that.

By default, the database is stored in JSON format text files… very easy to read and backup. Early on in OH 2.x, mapdb was used, so maybe you are confused with that?

Preconceived nothions I guess… I’m used to SQL server with work… Database gets corrupt you’re pretty much hosed… Contrast that with my all-plaintext code that’s backed up in source control (revisionable, revertable, human-readable), and ya see why I want nothing to do what that… But JSON sounds waaaay better. Still, wanted the simplest, most portable, and most readable format for my home system’s config… long-term thinking… ya know… :smiley:

I am not sure which SQL server (many support the open SQL language) you are using but most all of them have proper backup and rollback procedures to recover from unexpected corruption.

This is where “backups” come in hand :wink:
I dont like databases either… But in openhab, I use text file because I dont like PaperUI and its bad overview. Not because it´s using a jsondb.

Anyone else know a tool for modifying zwave association group #2 without using habmin?

Well, I use sometimes Domoticz in a docker container just to configure zwave. It uses open zwave and has a nifty control panel (ozwcp).

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Many Z-Wave devices allow direct peer-to-peer associations to Group 2 to function independent of a controller.