Aeotec Z-Pi 7 vs RaZberry 7

Is there currently any benefits for 700er Controller?

(Seems not so at that date; but I also saw some topics here developing S2 Secure and SmartStartup)

Or the other way round, are there any problems when they work in “compatibility mode”?
Currently running a RaZberry2 and I am not very happy with the advanced features of their software z-way. Will there be a better one if I switch the vendor to aeotec? (not found yet)


Hello David

I would say no if you have a RaZberry2, same like me.
The RaZberry is an older piece of hardware but very reliable so.

I do not use the z-way binding, just to remove ghost devices or update the controller just for fun.
I have no idea why to use the z-way binding, the OH zwave binding is superb and it si possible to interact with other bindings and rules etc.

I don’t know anything about Z-Way, but the OH Z-Wave binding does not support 700-series controllers at this time. It does, however, support 700-series devices (e.g. switches, plugs, sensors).

There’s a lot of discussion about this in the community.

EDIT - Apparently I spoke too soon:

One of the “look and feel” benefits of Z-Wave 700 (and 500) is network wide inclusion. You don´t have to bring your Z-Wave device to your bridge to include, you can start the binding mode and press the appropriate button on the device to connect if it is in range of the network. This is a big advantage if you - for example - have a roller shutter control mounted in a wall socket and don´t want do dismount the whole device to rebind in case of failures.
And also it supports ZWave+ with improvements in Batterylifetime (+50%) and even more network bandwith. I think, new Z-Wave devices will have the new ±Standard…

And one argument last but not least: z-wave standard is 12 Years old and it’s time to refresh a little bit. You know what it means 12 years in IT? Are you happy with a 12 year old Notebook? …Just only if you use it as a typewriter :wink:
Cheers, Nick

I thought that the Razberry 2 is a 500-series device?

Can’t say I really agree with this comparison. A Z-Wave device is more like a toaster than a notebook computer. It has one job, and even though there are newer and more impressive toasters out there, the old toaster is still perfectly fine. There’s no reason to replace it unless it stops working, you’re unhappy with the performance, or you need/want a new feature.

It sounds like @Oekel is unhappy with the performance of the Razberry 2, but if some of the concern is about Z-Way then the easiest path is to just get an Aeotec 500-series USB stick that is known to work well in openHAB. Looks like there’s more discussion in your other thread though, so I’ll stay out of that. I’m glad to hear you got your Razberry 7 Pro working, though.

Yes, It performes network wide inclusion.

The Problem might be that I have no comparison to any Z-wave installation and its delays.
For my feeling It could be faster. (GUI 2 Device is ca. 500ms; Device 2 GUI a little bit slower. Device-2-Rule-2-2ndDevice 1-2 Seconds even if the log reacts very fast; Sending a command to a Group of 15 Devices could sometimes take a whole minute: Thats to long while leaving the house and want getting sure everything is done well)

You might want to refresh/reorganize your network (use z-way for that) and identify dead nodes to speed things up.
The controller however is that part of the network that matters least w.r.t. this, replacing a RaZberry 2 for a RaZberry 7 will not help.

There’s not really much why you would want a 700 controller. Bandwidth is not really an issue. Long range maybe, but that’ll require 700 devices, too so it is a mere edge case for now, and mesh routing will do as well.

Measuring with OH rules isn’t going to tell you anything in this case, because that brings your OH server into the equation. You just want to know about your Z-Wave network.

I’d suggest testing the speed difference between nodes that are directly connected to the controller and nodes that rely upon others to pass on information. Then I’d remove dead nodes, refresh the network, and test again. Hopefully you’ll see a difference with the indirect communication.

Sorry, I was not aware of this, as the Razberry 2 lacks the Z-Wave logo, and certainly not Z-Wave Plus… I have now read through the marketing announcements.
Ok, the 700 controller is the further development to the Z-Wave Plus V2 with the network range increase noticeable for the user. The Z-Wave plus V2 controllers such as thermostats have now a longer battery life due to the energy savings despite the greater range.

Anyway, that’s not what we want to talk about now, but that we have found a way to get a new hardware product running in Openhab and thus be prepared for the future.
Cheers, Nick

I think you’re mixing terminology here. A thermostat would be a Z-Wave device, not a controller. openHAB can already support 700-series devices, but the official Z-Wave binding does not support 700-series controllers.

Getting the Razberry 7 Pro working with Z-Way means that you’re one of the few people who can currently benefit from 700-series improvements, but only if you’re also using 700-series devices. Older devices won’t see any benefits from the 700-series controller.

And yet, this is still less confusing than WiFi 6, 6E, and 7. :wink:

If someone’s starting out with Z-Wave from scratch, it would be reasonable to point them to the Razberry 7. Personally, I’d need to see a few more success stories before I recommend anyone go in that direction. If someone already has quite a few 500-series switches/thermostats/plugs/sensors/etc., I don’t see a signficant benefit to upgrading to a 700-series controller at this point in time.

I’m personally holding out for Matter/Thread to make all of this irrelevant, but with every delay they announce that becomes more of a pipe dream. :person_shrugging:

Yes, you are right. You don’t need to change your up and running system if you are happy with that.

It was important to me to say - against all previous announcements - that the communication of the official z-Wave binding of chris jackson in Openhab actually works with the RazBerry7 (and maybe also with other manufacturers using the 700 series)…
Since it was said again and again that it is not supported and does not work… well, it does work - maybe not 100% yet, but that should motivate now… for the community and the developers…
Cheers Nick

This is what we need to be careful about. Unless Chris is rewriting the docs, the Z-Wave binding still doesn’t officially support 700-series controllers, but you and some others have managed to get the Razberry 7 working (which I think is great).

In contrast, I don’t believe that anyone has managed to get an Aeotec Gen7 USB stick working. So, I think we should be very specific about the Razberry 7 being an exception to the rule at this point in time. I just don’t want to accidentally point people in the wrong direction and cause them to buy something that’s not going to work (and make it harder for them to set up OH).

totally agree with you… :+1:

By the way: my OH 2.5 runs well on the RPi3 with the RaZberry2 from 2018. I just wanted to update now to OH 3.2 and at the same time clean up everything and make new in parallel. Why not then also immediately with current hardware? I know this from the IT industry: Devices older than 5 years should be replaced if possible and if you do all the work, because your work is also expensive and if you also want to do things new… also because most of the time the devices are no longer supported and are out of service … Sooner than you would like … and then you stand there and start again… (Ok, I realize that this is not the case with a toaster;-))

Anyway… In any case, I’m glad that the Razberry7 shield is basically up and running (at least with the thermostat) and I can now gradually move everything to the new hardware in parallel with my existing OH system. The feedback, if something does not work as expected, I then pass on to the developers and hopefully is then for the next 5 years peace, until I move to OH 4 … :wink:
Cheers Nick

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Before I started this thread a wrote an e-Mail to Aeotec (regarding the Z-Pi 7).
Would be great if we could push the development/communication between Chris and Aeotec somehow. Course in my convolut the Aeotec Hardware works much smoother than all the others. Hopefully Mr. Jackson is reading this too and has enough time for that great work.

Unfortunately, there’s a lot more to it than someone finding time to work on it with Aeotec. See this thread from a year ago where it was discussed extensively. I don’t know how much has changed since then.

After reading this thread I decided to flash a UZB-7 with firmware and see how much works.

I added this to 3.3 M1 and the device comes up and the counters on the controller increment.

I then added a Fibaro FGWPB-121 wall plug. The device added but the interrogation is failing. The requests are ACK and the reports are sent and ACK but something is failing and the device is not fully initialised. The config file is created but many values are not populated correctly.

I will play a bit more but would say this is not working.


Tried a few versions of the controller firmware and all fail. Possibly this is because this is a z-wave plus device and something it sends when using a very recent controller is not handled by the binding. I don’t think this is worth pursuing unless others find they can add a wide range of devices without issue to a 700 series.

RaZberry2 is also a “Z-Wave PLUS” Controller. And MOST of the time inclusion-time is to small for initialize all properties (as mentioned above) I call “heal” after all inclusions and get more or even all properties (including the “reinitialize button”, which was not there when it fails)
Not sure if the TOPIC is still correct, couse we discuss most of the time about “700er Controller working in OpenHAB” Should we open a new topic?

I was referring to the capabilities of the slave device.

Also a uzb-7 with 7.17 is a z-wave + v2 device with a bridge controller firmware. A RaZberry2 is a z-wave + device with a non bridge controller firmware.

Swapped the UZB-7 with bridge controller firmware for a UZB-3 with non bridge controller firmware and Fibaro FGWPB-121 wall plug adds and initialises in seconds on same platform.

If you guys can add a wide range of devices then it might indicate that Aeotec and zway have built their own version of the 7.xx firmware that is compatible. Alternatively the device you added being an older device did not try to use any of the more advanced features that a the latest controllers supports. i.e. you have only tested support of old compatible features.

I have tested a uzb-7 (the reference 700 controller design) with pre and post LR firmware.

If I use the same UZB-7 in a zware/z-IP setup the Fibaro FGWPB-121 works as expected. Also in PC controller and I am sure in z-wave MQ.

I could analyse further but will not unless Chris expresses a whish to go down that route. Just now he has not indicated he wants to.

If you can shed any light on what the firmware in the Aeotec 7 or RaZberry 7 is I would be interested