Busch-Jaeger Zigbee Light Link control element stops working

zigbee
hardware
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(Falk S.) #1

I am addressing this topic here in order to find out wether also others have similar problems with Zigbee control elements made by Busch-Jaeger:

I do have about 12 Zigbee Light Link control elements (product description) installed. In general this provides a great integration of Philips Hue compatible lights in replacement of “old” wall switches as well as integration of “traditional” lights for home automation.
While in most cases the system works fine, the Busch-Jaeger Zigbee control elements sometimes simply stop operating. Then they need to be pulled from the insert and pushed in back again in order to work normally again.This happens appr. all 3-6 weeks with one to two elements.

I am in contact with Busch-Jaeger since December last year. I also sent them one of my control elements so that they could test it in their environment. Even after several months they are not able to reproduce the problem.

To me it seems to be related to the management of the Zigbee Mesh-Network Management. Whenever another Hue controlled item fails, the failure of one of the control elements seems to be more likely.

Is there any one else having these kind of problems? It would be great to know and give Busch-Jaeger some more evidence on this issue.

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(Sebastiaan Vermeulen) #2

Hi Falk,

I think I have the very same problem.

About 7 months ago I bought two Zigbee Light link control elements Busch Jaeger 6715 U + Busch Jaeger 6736-84 (2-voudig). And, just like you described, after a certain period of time the controversy seems ‘freezed’. There’s no more response to any of the buttons or through the Hue bridge / Hue app. Instead of removing the control from the insert, I found that turning off the power meter in the meter cabinet also resets the control and makes it function again.

I have found no relationship with a failure of any other Hue controlled item. Although, if I completely remove the Busch Jaeger control element from the Zigbee network and just use it through it’s physical buttons, the problem seems not to occur. My network consists of 3 Philips Hue GU10 Spots and the two Busch-Jaeger control elements.

Have you found any further insight into this issue since your posting in May?

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(Falk S.) #3

Hi Sebastiaan,

good to know to be not the only one …
it is quite interesting to read that the control element works okay if not being part of the Zigbee network. This matches my with my latest experiences of interference of WLAN 2,4GHz and Zigbee.
Also, a lot of things have happened since May. Even though I am still in contact with Busch-Jaeger support to find the root cause, this is my latest status observed with 16 control elements installed in total:

  • Busch-Jaeger provided a new firmware (version 1.2) that really is an improvement compared to version 1.0. Besides stability fixes, a new dimmer function has been added to the control elements. That’s really great since it allows to dim Zigbee lamps just by a firmware upgrade. Your GU10 Spots should support this feature. The firmware upgrade requires a Zigbee light link hub (not hue hub) that has been offered by Busch-Jaeger as an USB-Stick. Because of ongoing travels, I don’t have access to details (url of firmware upgrade program and part number for the stick) but can provide the information later on. Alternatively you may want to contact Busch-Jaeger support.
  • Even though the new firmware is an improvement, it did not fix all problems. Especially the “freeze issue” remained. After several mail exchanges with Busch-Jaeger I did change the Zigbee channel via the Hue App and experienced “mixed” symptoms. Based on this experience I investigated into WLAN / Zigbee incompatibilities since the WLAN 2,4GHz shares frequencies with Zigbee Light Link. This resulted in an replacement of my FritzBox 7390 by a the new FritzBox 7590, decommissioning Airport Express and an Asus router as additional WLAN Hubs at the same time and replacing the same by one Fritz Repeater instead. The first 3 days after these changes have been a nightmare in terms of stability of the Zigbee network with impacts on Busch-Jaeger control elements as well as even Hue components. Therefore I changed the Zigbee channel again (this time to channel 25) and - after 1 to 2 days of stabilization - do experience a solid operation mode … for just one week now.

Bottom Line:

  • I do recommend to upgrade to version 1.2 for the control elements
  • there is interference between WLAN and Zigbee impacting at least Zigbee component’s stability
  • key is to find a good working mode of your WLAN 2.4GHz and Zigbee network
  • mid/long term experiences are still outstanding. Therefore more info and reports of your individual experiences are highly welcome.

Please let me know in case you need the detailed information outlined above.

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(Sebastiaan Vermeulen) #4

Hi Falk,

Thanks for the informative reply!

Indeed an interesting finding that interference of WLAN 2,4Ghz and Zigbee might cause these problems.

The comment on the software update puzzled me a bit. I couldn’t find anything about software or firmware updates on the website of Busch-Jaeger. The only control elements that have a firmware update are the ones that are connected with a bus cable. These are from the ABB-free@home series (https://www.busch-jaeger.de/en/products/systems/abb-freehome/).

Just to be sure that we are talking about the same control elements. I have the Zigbee Light Link elements (Busch Jaeger 6715 U + Busch Jaeger 6736-84). But I haven’t come accross any information about firmware updates. So yes, if you have any detailed information about that, I would be very pleased.
And also the remark on the new dimmer function isn’t clear. Through the Hue-app one can dim already each and every lamp that is connected?

I my situation I use two Apple routers: Time capsule 5th Gen. and a Time Capsule 4th Gen. as a repeater of the signal. The ultimate test would be to eliminate the WLAN 2.4Ghz signals. But it’s impossible to shutdown my own WiFi network and all of the neighbours WiFi networks. The Time Capsule allow you to choose a channel for 2,4Ghz signal (1 - 13). I might try to vary on this in relation to the Zigbee channel.

What is the response from Busch-Jaeger so far? Are they truly concerned and focussed on finding the root cause? I am still within the warranty-period, so I beter report my problems with the control-elements sometime this year.

I would be pleased to stay in touch to see this issue solved of solve it ourselves.

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(Falk S.) #5

Hi Sebastiaan,

yes, I do have several 6735-84, 6736-84 and 6737-84 installed. It may be that the firmware is not “official” yet since I reported this problem not to be resolved.
Since you bought your control elements 7 months ago, I assume they came with version 1.0 of the firmware. You should find the upgrade tool for windows (with the firmware) under this link:
www.busch-jaeger.de/bje/software/Zigbee_Software/BJE_ZLL_Update_Tool_Setup_V1_2_0_Windows_Version.exe
Please note that you need the described Zigbee LL Stick to update the firmware of your control elements. You can find the manual for the “new” control element here: FB01_6735_6736_6737_ZigBee Bedienelement_DE_EN_FR_alte Norm.pdf (310.8 KB)

For the new dimmer function: I assume you have a traditional lamp connected to your 6715 U (controlled by upper control bar) while you control the GU10 Spots with the lower control bar. With firmware version 1.0 you can dim the spots via an app connected to the Hue bridge only. With firmware version 1.2 you can also dim and control the GU 10 spots with the lower control bar of the control element. The manual attached is updated to describe how to set this function up with the new firmware.

Since I reconfigured my WLAN setup, I must say that most likely I still face the same issue of “frozen” control element. I say “most likely” since my family reported the problem today but due to ongoing travel, I have not seen it with my own eyes.

Right now it is fair to say Busch-Jaeger is pretty much committed to get the issue solved. Never the less it’s hard for them to replicate the problem in their test environment. Therefore Busch-Jaeger experts will come to my house beginning Oct to investigate on this issue in detail. For now, they assume this to be an isolated problem of my installation. Therefore it would help if you could report your problem to Busch-Jaeger support as well to increase importance of this issue.

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(Sebastiaan Vermeulen) #6

Hi Falk,

Thanks for the links. Still a couple of additional questions.

Is the upgrade tool als available voor Mac? I don’t seem to reauthorised to look around the webpages where the download comes from. Do you have a special developer-account or something like that?
The same goes for the Zigbee LL Stick. I can’t find any reference where I can get such a stick. I found the Excellence portal: https://www.busch-jaeger-excellence.de, but that seems to be for retailers, not for consumers.

I did find some basic insights on interference of WiFi 2,4 Ghz and Zigbee.
Zigbee and WiFi Coexistence
Perhaps so basic, that you’re probably aware of it. But I concluded that switching both WiFi-routers to channel 11 and the Zigbee network to channel 11 would result theoretically in the least interference. But, the issue is probably a little more complicated than that. Unfortunately I can’t upload any attachments in this forum, but at the bottom of the mentioned meta geek site there is a download of an interesting diagram on ZigBee channels.

I agree on your point to mention my issues to Busch-Jaeger. Is there any specific department of person I should sent my message to?

Regards,
Sebastiaan

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(Falk S.) #7

Hi Sebastiaan,

thanks for the link of Zigbee/WLAN interferences. I was not aware of this post and the information provided is really great.

Yes, there should be also an upgrade tool available for Mac but unfortunately I do not have a special account and just have the information BJ support gave me. They should be able to provide you with the link for the Mac tool and the information about the required Zigbee LL Stick.

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(Falk S.) #8

After having re-configured all WLAN Hotports according to “Zigbee and WiFi Coexistence”, I am still experiencing the following failure symptoms/error are:

  • control element “freezes”: no connection to control element and connected lamp does not react
  • control element looses connection, LEDs flashing 6 times: no connection to control element possible
  • control element itself does work, e.g. connected lamp can be controlled but element is not reachable by other control elements and/or not reachable by hue bridge

Firmware of control elements is v1.2. Anyone who experienced similar problems?

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(Udo Heinold) #9

Hello,
i have exactly the same issues. From time to time the BJ needs to be reseted by pulling them out of the wall :frowning:
Right now i build two new houses and just ordered 22 Light Links … hope this issue can be fixed.
I‘m that i found that threat and will contact BJ on Monday.
Not only telling them, i‘m not alone … in addition to that i will ask for that firmware update as some of my BJ still using firmware 1.0

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(Falk S.) #10

Hi Udo,

do you experience all the issues described above, or just some?


  • control element “freezes”: no connection to control element and connected lamp does not react
  • control element looses connection, LEDs flashing 6 times: no connection to control element possible
  • control element itself does work, e.g. connected lamp can be controlled but element is not reachable by other control elements and/or not reachable by hue bridge

In the meanwhile, BJ analyzed the ZigBee traffic of my installation and found some network/address conflicts. Therefore BJ asked me to reset and reconfigure the whole network. I did so last Sunday. Let’s see if this helps at least for some of the issues …

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(Lars Päßler) #11

Hi,

I also have this problem. From time to time the Plug needs to be pulled out the wall. With FW 1.0 there was also an problem combined with Osram Lightify Plugs.
I´ve just 6710Us in my setup. It seems, that the Osram plug needs to be newly programmed to the 6710U. Other Hue bulbs works properly. Restarting the switches by pulling them out of the wall doesn`t work.
With FW 1.2 this error was eleminated. Just from time to time I have to restart the 6710U. The problem effects just 2 or 3 of 5 switches ( but never more than 1 every few weeks).

In this time Id also changed my hue bridge (from version 1 to version 2) with a fresh zigbee network. Didnt changed anything!

@Falk Thank you for the new manuals. Ive searched for the new dimming feature but didnt find it on my own!

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(Otto) #12

Hello,

I wanted to update my BJ control elements to version 1.2 as well but can not find anything on the needed USB stick. Can this just be any Zigbee USB Stick or must it be one from BJ? Does someone have a product ID? Where did you buy it?

For the mention problem: control element that stop working.
I have one (out of four) such control element that hangs from time to time, it works fine for weeks or even months and then it stop working, after reseating it in the wall switch it works again. Lately I moved my Wifi AP further away (for other reasons), since then it did not crash yet. The other three switches never had a hang so far.

Regards

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(Falk S.) #13

I did reset my Zigbee network but do experience the same problems as before. I am in contact with BJ and they are still searching for the cause of the problems. They do have problems to simulate the issues in their test environment. So, wherever you may have any hint when or why a specific issue is been triggered, please post here!

@Lars: I suggest to not waste time with the Osram Plugs … to my experience they do have a severe range problem and I replaced them by “Paul Neuhaus” switches (e.g. available here). My experience after some weeks is very positive: they are much more reliable, design is nice, have this extra night light (which I don’t use) and are in the same price range as Osram’s. Also my hue bridge likes them more than the ones made by Osram. Only con is their relay unit is somewhat louder … no problem for me, I prefer stability.

@Otto: part number for the Zigbee Stick is 6710-0-0009. It’s called “USB-Stick for ZLL updates”. I did not find this in BJ’s online catalog though. You may need to request this device via their hotline directly. My assumption is this device is the only one that enables BJ FW updates for their Zigbee devices. In case you find any other device, please let us know.

I am still in close contact with BJ to support them in fixing the issues described in this thread. I expect new info end of this month.

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(Achim ) #14

Hi I have problems with my controls 6735 in connections with the UP-inserts 6710 and 6711, 6715. My ZigBee router is from Dresden electronics. The lighting system consists of GU10 OSRAM, Philips and IKEA, as well as from Dresden - electronics. After I have updated the FW from 1.0 to 1.2 you can save any scenes, it works only the dimmer function. I can while the router that controls see but you can half controls the lights connect only that which UP no matter and then only dimming.

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(Jens) #15

Quick question about the Update Stick:

  • How much did it cost?
  • How did you got it?

Thanks a lot

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(Achim ) #16

hi jens I got the update stick from BJ for free

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(Uwe Janzen) #17

Hi Folks, I am having same issue with my installation. First of all, thank you for the hints, I will get into contact with BJ Support to be prepared for FW fixes on the issues.

One question I have with you guys:
Within your home setup, is there anywhere a PowerLan in use?

Thanks

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(Falk S.) #18

@Uwe_Janzen: Yes, 3 Devolo dLan 200 and a dLAN 500 device.
Do you have any hints that this may cause problems with the BJ control elements?

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(Uwe Janzen) #19

No prove, just guts feeling.

approx 8 Months back, I switched from old 80 Mbit Powerlan (these broke) to TPLINK Powerlan (500 MBit) adapters. Since then, I am experiencing these freezes on the BJ Elements, which I have in operation since more than one year.

I know it sounds weird. However, Powerline is known to cause interference on short range radio. I wonder whether there might be further implications such as modulation impacts on the wired adapters.

Unfortunately, I was not able to kick out the Powerlan, as I need it for a central purpose. If there are more people using powerlan and experiencing this issue, I will give it a shot to replace these with proper cabling to see if it helps.

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(Uwe Janzen) #20

one additional information.

I also have one of the battery driven wallswitches (6736/01-8x).
I havent experienced freezes with that since i put it into operation (6 Months back).

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