Homematic Radiators with Netatmo in Openhab

Hello togehter,

i want to setup my 4x new homematic ip heater thermostat in combination with netatmo indoor station and openhab!

At first my setup:

  • Openhabian Snapshot
  • RaspberryMatic (CCU2 Simulation)
  • Netatmo Indoormodul and 1x Healthy Coach
  • 4x HmIP-eTRV-2

Rooms and Devices:

  • Livingroom: 1x Netatmo Indoor Modul & 1x HmIP-eTRV-2
  • Bedroom: 1x Netatmo Healty Coach & 1x HmIP-eTRV-2
  • Office: 1x HmIP-eTRV-2
  • Bathroom: 1x HmIP-eTRV-2

The initial problem is that the temperature on the homematic heater thermostat is a bit higher which means that the “real” temperature in the room is lower. So first option is to set an offset in the “CCU2” or say in Openhab that the temperature reference is the netatmo… For the Livingroom and bedroom i want to prefer this way but in the bathroom and office i think I need to set an offset…

Is somebody here which is controlling his homematic heater thermostat with openhab and give me some examples or am I on the wrong way with my idea?! Or should i do the programms in the CCU2 and setting up the rest like rules in OH?

I really appreciate your ideas and suggestions :slight_smile:
Thanks!

Best Regards
Carsten

No one using homematic heaters in Openhab and can tell me his or her logic for an idea how I can do my Setup :see_no_evil:

Currently I have set up the programming of my Homematic thermostats on the CCU. I use openHAB only when I want to change the room temperature manually, e.g. when I am not at home. As soon as I find some more time to learn writing rules in openHAB I will probably perform more by openHAB.

Regards
Martin

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@MHerbst Can you send me an example of your configuration in OpenHab?
Thanks

I’m running the complete heating with Homematic. (No IP though.)

In Addition to the radiator thermostats i bought a wall thermostat for each room. These are controlling the radiator thermostats.

I was running using the offset first, but it didn’t work as good as i wanted to.

openHAB s just used for setting the basic modes. The heating works, once configured, without openHAB.

That‘s my Problem :smiley: Offset is not working great…thats why i wanted to use the netatmo in each room as reference

If you want to use a different temp sensor, you need to do the complete controlling afaik.

If you use the temp sensor of your device family, you get it for “free”. And it runs without constant roundtrips from/to/openHAB/cloud/device.

My configuration is similar to Joachim. In my living room I am using the wall thermostat which is directly (in the CCU) coupled with 3 radiator thermostats. In addition I have got window contacts in all rooms and the contacts are also directly coupled with the thermostats.
In the other rooms I have configures offsets, but at least in one room I will probably also install a thermostat.

In openHAB I have currently no rules for Homematic devices defined. I have configured several items with Paper UI.

Therefore my openHAB configuration is currently very simple. This is an excerpt of my sitemap (item names should be self-explaining):

Frame label="Schlafzimmer" {
   Text item=HeizungSchlaf_4_ActualTemperature   label="Aktuelle Temperatur [%s °C]" valuecolor=[>30="red",>20="orange",>15="green",>1="green",<=1="aqua"]
   Setpoint item=HeizungSchlaf_4_SetTemperature  label="Neue Temperatur" minValue=5 maxValue=23 step=0.5
   Text item=Fenster_Schlafzimmer label="Fenster"
}
Frame label="Wohnzimmer" {
   Text item=ThermostatWohn_2_ActualTemperature   label="Aktuelle Temperatur [%s °C]" valuecolor=[>30="red",>20="orange",>15="green",>1="green",<=1="aqua"]
   Text item=ThermostatWohn_1_Humidity   label="Luftfeuchtigkeit [%s %%]"
   Setpoint item=ThermostatWohn_2_SetTemperature  label="Neue Temperatur" minValue=5 maxValue=23 step=0.5
   Text item=Tuer_Wohnzimmer label="Fenster"
}

Yeah that is what i mean…i am not using the cloud access point from homematic i use the radiator directly in homematic ccu emulation…and that’s my problem to configure this rule framework to let it work in openhab :smiley:

Ok. I don’t use a single rule for basic operation (heating) in openHAB. That’s all done by the devices themselves. I just use openHAB to set a special target temperature which is not covered by the profiles.

The homematic devices are coupled, like the devices of @MHerbst. But this coupling can only be done within a device family afaik. And i am not sure, if the HmIP compatibility layer is able to provide that. In fact, i am almost sure it can’t.

At least the Homematic devices can’t use an out of family temp sensor to inject the current temp into the control loop.

So, you need to provide a complete control loop using a faked target temp to control the room temp. You can’t set the valve state with Homematic devices. (not sure about HmIP)

Try to setup a direct link (Direktverknüpfung) between two of your radiator thermostats. If that works, you may use the HmIP wall thermostats.

But my suggestion would be:

Sell the HmIP thermostats, buy 4 Hm radiator and 4 Hm wall thermostat kits (my children build them in 5 minutes). The total costs for the Hm kits is 260 euros.

Sorry :frowning:

HmIP may have some pros against Hm devices but without using the HmIP access point you don’t take advantage.

Sorry again :frowning:

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I would simply include the Netatmo Indoormodule into Homematic and then trigger rules within the RaspberryMatic/CCU2 according to your needs. There are tons of scripts out there in the Homematic Germany forum. I am running all heating devices from Homematic within the CCU2 and just have a sitemap in Openhab like Martin to change actual temperature, trigger a boost or control when i am not at home if needed. You dont need to sell your HMIP´s to do this, just be aware that you cannot mix HMIP with HM. This means if you consider to buy a wall thermostat or window device, this needs to be HMIP in your case.

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What? Why sell my HmIP Radiators? They are working with the CCU2 aswell and are newer devices then the old ones?!
I bought 4 now on blackfriday for 120€?! :smiley:

Ok i will have a look of an integration with netatmo in the CCU2 itselfs…

Damn, thought someone here is using the CCU2 just as a bridge and did the whole logic in the OpenHab

Sure. I wasn’t saying there isn’t an alternative.

I did my share of tries with including different devices into CCU2 and i remember no fun with it. One reason may have been the CCU2 (slow as hell), Raspberrymatic is much nicer to work with.

Dont’ forget, you just get a temperature (related to heating) from the Netatmo devices. Afaik you can’t put this temperature reading into the heating, you have to translate it into a faked target temperature (higher than the current temperature at the radiator) to get the room heated according to the Netatmo temperature. (Afaik you can’t set the valve state on the radiators, if that would be possible, it would be much simpler.)

Sure, that is possible. But for me, heating is so essential i want to reduce the complexity as much as possible.

The most simple solution is just to buy HmIP wall thermostats (4x50=200 euro). (Simplified, to be comparable.) I think i understood @muelli1967 correctly, that pairing HmIP devices with the CCU2/Raspberrymatic is possible.

So the difference in costs between the Hm system vs. HmIP is just 60 Euros, which you should recover easily by selling the 4x HmIP thermostats. It would be different, if you would use the HmIP access point, app. etc.

Again, sorry. But i just said this is my suggestion. I would do that, it’s not the single solution possible.

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Sorry, i don’t want to spoil your experience. :frowning:

Heating is in my opinion that essential, that i don’t want to be dependent on complex stuff. Be it CCU2 or be it openHAB, heating should work autonomously. The less software involved, the better.

But that’s just my opinion.

If you want to keep your HmIP devices i would suggest adding some HmIP wall thermostats and let these devices work independently (without the CCU2, pair them directly). Use the Netatmo as secondary source of temperature etc.

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At first thanks for your work writing such big experiences :slight_smile:

Just for clarification, I am using the Raspberrymatic Version in combination with the HomematicIP devices! Works like a charm :slight_smile:

The problem for me is, like you said, that the temperature at the radiator himself is about 3 degrees higher then the real room temperature on the netatmo! That’s why I want to set the real temperature on the netatmo as the “real” temperature on the radiator! I will take a look at the homematic forum :smiley: and will write you my experience :slight_smile:

If you want to keep your HmIP devices i would suggest adding some HmIP wall thermostats and let these devices work independently (without the CCU2, pair them directly). Use the Netatmo as secondary source of temperature etc.

This fact i don’t understand? Why should I pair these devices? Which means in every room is the same temperature? Cause living room is a different temperature then in the bedroom?

Thanks :slight_smile:

Sure it is. Pair a wall thermostat with the corresponding radiator for each room, not all rooms together, Pairing of two radiator thermostats is just for testing, since i do not know HmIP.

But the devices can work independently. Pair a wall thermostat with a radiator thermostat and the devices work the heating out by themselves. You can switch the CCU2 off, heating still works, because the devices of a single family communicate with each other when paired. “Wall thermostat to radiator, it’s too cold, please heat”

Using the Netatmo device you need at least the CCU2 as a translator. Netatmo: “Hey CCU2, please tell the radiator the temperature”. And maybe even what to do with the temperature information.

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Ok yeah then we are back on the same understanding :slight_smile:

But i think it could not be a huge affort to set the whole thing in Openhab…

Time 00:00 - 06:00 set 17°C till reach 17° on Netatmo
etc. etc. or what do I forget in my logic?

Unless you can’t use the temperature of the Netatmo as a sensor to the radiator, you need to adjust the set temperature of the radiator. (You can’t write the current temperature or the valve state to the radiator)

Example:
Netatmo says 17°, target temperature is 20°, radiator temperature is 20°

In order to get the radiator to heat, you need to set the radiator set temperature to something > 20°
radiator set temperature = radiator temperature + (target temperature - Netatmo temperature)

So, you need to adjust the set temperature on the radiator all the time.

It is for sure possible, but requires a bit of testing and adjusting, while all the same logic is already done for the thermostats as a standard functionality (And you paid for it). You just can’t use it, because the sensors are not “compatible enough”.

If you find a possibility to inject the current temperature of the Netatmo to the Radiator, you can use the radiator logic again. But i don’t know if or how this is possible.

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I just saw some HmIP wall thermostats, available as kit for 30€.