May be a stupid question

Hi
I am new to OH2 and OH3M4
I try to understand it’s logic, but a question raise to me:

why it’s not keep simple? a KISS (ki
eep It Simple Stupid) approach may be a very good things.

There is wizard to configure the OH and configure it?
If there is not why do not create a wizard to start the configuration.

I am a Apple user so I am accustomed with some kind of easy to use approach, but I am also able to build and run Linux server…

Thank to all

  • openHAB version:3M4

What‘s wrong with the first time setup wizard in openHAB3 ?
If you get a bit more familiar with the concept behind openHAB, the huge variety of supported devices and all the possibilities, you will see why it cannot be simple.

Because there’s no simple solutions to complex problems/challenges.
Full scale Home Automation is hard.

PS: sorry but I had to laugh when I read that.
PPS: you should start with reading the docs, in particular but not exclusively this

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Well, I suggest maybe you pick an absolutely fresh user by OS type to review the documentation about setup and first steps.
You might not believe it, but I have been struggling one day to install on windows (and I have been a Visual Studio developer, so I usually can navigate things) but unfortunately there is not single path that seems to help you to get to a stable starting point.
Doc suggest to install the Standard Package, you end up with no demo environment to try to understand what’s behind the scenes. So you would like to roll back and install demo, but there is no info how to change package and you spoil some time and end up hard deleting folders (which is giving me goose bumps)
You try to follow youtube tutorials, but for instance the VScode extension does not work as explained in github and in the youtube video, so you are stuck again.
And I just wanted to show some reading from a device sharing info through MQTT. No idea yet if that can be done.
I trust this is a complete platform and the topic is complex, but I feel that there is also a problem in documenting what is done.

Because home automation is very complex and there is only so much that can be done to make it more simple without eliminating capability. I’m not saying that OH can’t be made simpler, but it’s never going to be something a casual user is going to pick up and create a home automation system the same way they would write an email.

If the loss of capability in favor of simplicity is something you seek, there are several commercial options that might be a better fit for you.

tl;dr: what each and every individual user wants to create with their home automation system is completely unique and unique in radically different ways. There is no way to distill that down into a simple wizard.

I’ve asked about 15-20 times for people to review the new Getting Started Tutorial for OH 3. Hundreds to thousands of users of this forum have read my pleas. 0 newish users have volunteered to help.

We don’t get to “pick” a user and assign them a task. Such users have to volunteer. And no one has. So all we can do is beg and no one bothers.

About 80% of all the core docs have been written by three people.

Will you volunteer or are you like all the rest, full of suggestions but “no time to help.”

[Yes, I’m a little tired of seeing “you’re doing the docs all wrong” posts with no offers to actually help fix it.]

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Will you volunteer or are you like all the rest, full of suggestions but “no time to help.”

Well, here I am… I mean, if there is a channel I can use to post my comments/chat with people handling documentation, more than glad to help. I am investing a lot of time trying to set things up and it can very well include interaction with some of your team who is handling doc.
A walktrough for the first steps would be great.
I can also communicate over Discord if there is such a channel.
Maybe it’s me, but I feel (from the tutorial I am reading) that doc is a bit flat, meaning that is feeding a lot of details to users when they have not yet even the basic foundation to see how thing work from A to Z.

With complex systems you usually need a big idea which is the starting point for drilldowns - you know, the “Hello world” project used for many many programming languages.
Just my twoppence. Just available to help.
The platform looks obviously complete and extremely interesting

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How do you expect newbies to help write/edit your documentation when they are newbies who don’t know anything about the software? You have to know something about what you’re writing about in order to write something coherent. I’m following the instructions to put the software on an SD card with etcher and I’m getting an error message that says missing partition table. I have no clue what that means, so how would I be able to write about it?

(forgot to mention, if I have to shift from 2 to 3, it’s okay, being a beginner I have nothing to migrate. As best suits OH team)

The github repo is at https://github.com/openhab/openhab-docs.

The PR for the Getting Started tutorial for OH 3 is at https://github.com/openhab/openhab-docs/pull/1304.

At the bottom of every page in the docs is a "Caught a mistake or want to contribute to the documentation? Edit this page on GitHub " link.

You can open an issue if you think the changes need to be more drastic or needs further input from the maintainers. Please don’t spend time making massive edits to the docs without opening an issue and describing what you want to contribute. There might already be something in work that you might bump up against.

There is an issue open to address migrating the docs to OH 3 at https://github.com/openhab/openhab-docs/issues/1310.

If you want to propose something completely new for the docs often a good approach is to create a thread and request it be made into a wiki to get people who are members of the community here to help contribute to it. Then the result can be moved to the docs when it’s ready.

That overview is supposed to be provided by the Concepts section of the docs. The OH 3 Getting Started tutorial states up front that that part of the docs is a prerequisite to reading the tutorial.

If you are willing to help, thank you immensely! Far too often all we get is “your docs suck!”, “what in particular can we do to make it better?” we ask and the answer is “that’s not my job. I don’t have time!”

If they find something unclear or incorrect or missing they can tell us:

  • “this section was unclear”
  • “I don’t understand this”
  • “But it doesn’t say how to do X”

But we never even get that much. Its always “your docs suck.” Nothing remotely actionable.

But in truth, you don’t have to know a lick about software to write most of these docs. The lead maintainer of the docs repo isn’t a developer. I don’t know anything about OH’s core code.

In that case you problably wouldn’t because that’s not really an openHAB problem. That’s a problem with the software being used to write to the SD card. We can’t write fully fledged documentation for everything that remotely touches openHAB. We can barely manage to keep up with what’s actually part of openHAB itself. And apparently we suck at that anyway so would you really want us to cover all that when what ever software you are using to write the SD card has their own docs and forum?

That would be best. The docs for OH 2.5 are probably not going to change much. The new Getting Started tutorial I’m migrating to the docs right now starts at [wiki] Getting Started with OH3: rewriting the tutorial - 1. Introduction. I’ve marked which ones I’ve moved to GitHub already so if you have suggestions for edits to those please add a comment on the github issue.

As Einstein said… “Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler.”

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Okay, I’ll start from there. In the meanwhile, if you need to interact with a first time user to get opinions, please feel absolutely free to contact me. We can use some Discord server if you feel that helpful :blush:

Balena Etcher is the software mentioned by name in the openhab installation instructions for raspberry pi. The error message is an indication that the file I downloaded from the openhab github page is faulty because it is missing something called a partition table. It has nothing to do with Etcher and everything to do with either unclear documentation or a bad link to github leading to a file that doesn’t have the proper contents.

EDIT: openhab website says the latest stable version is 2.5.10 but according to github the latest version is 1.6.1.

Not only do I not have the time to help rewrite a mountain of documentation, I also don’t have the time to post questions and wait hours or even days for an answer that may or may not be correct. If the documentation was written properly in the first place, I wouldn’t be here on the forum.

Seems likes the normal story from this chap, never has time but wants people to help him and always complains about the documentation

HA forums, tasmota discord, Facebook groups.

are you stalking me? Perhaps if you were paying attention, you’d know that I’m not interested in home automation as a hobby. I am physically handicapped and often unable to walk across the room to flip a switch or adjust a thermostat. I don’t have the funds to have a professional installation done, and I’d rather have local control over my home automation system. I would like things to work when there is no available internet connection and I don’t want my personal information collected on a cloud server. I have tried hubitat, home assistant, and now openhab, and they all suffer from downright awful documentation and literally no support whatsoever.

And all except Hubitat, are provided by volunteers giving there time up to make something that somebody may appreciate, so no the documentation may not be spot on and the lack of support to help you personally may not be there.

Your disabilities do not give you any right to bash peoples efforts from donating their spare time to create something just because you are unable to get it working…

I’m not bashing anyone or anything. I’m offering criticism that is being misinterpreted by thin-skinned crybabies like you. I am by far not the only one to complain about these issues. Your excuse that nobody is being paid is laughable. I’m unable to get it working without someone else helping me because the documentation is atrocious. There is no excuse for lazy writing. The problem is that Amazon and Google are popularizing home automation, and when people like me learn about the problems with cloud connected automation schemes, they look to open source alternatives, only to find documentation written by lazy amateurs.

Not thin skinned, just tired of people like yourself who believe everything should be about them.
Have you thought it could be your own technical ability is the limiting factor and that no amount of documentation will be enough?

Those people you call lazy are the same people who could in theory help you, which i doubt they will.

I have plenty of technical aptitude. Don’t insult my intelligence and don’t blame the messenger. I don’t know who wrote the documentation, but I assume it wasn’t you. That being the case, why are you getting so bent out of shape over my post? If you have nothing helpful to offer, then don’t bother clicking the reply button.

openHABian is not openHAB. It’s a completely different project with it’s own docs and it’s own version numbers and release cycle.

Did you file an issue with the openHABian project or do you just prefer to complain?

I’m sorry, that the best efforts of the volunteers who donate their own time does not meet your exacting standards. After all you are paying so much money to use this free and open source project created with 100% volunteer effort. I think that we should withhold all that non-existent money that all the volunteers get paid.

Clearly you know the way! Our savior! Oh wait…

Once again, “your docs suck, do better.” Let me apologize that the best efforts of a bunch of unpaid volunteers have failed to live up to your entitled and exacting standards. Clearly we didn’t realize that will2568’s time is worth so much more than our own.

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