To group or not to group

I got a bit worried here, so I have to ask: Isn’t it supposed to be a common use case that items are in more than one group? For example I have lights that are in an aggregating functional group (“LightsDownstairs”) and a location group (“LivingRoom”) and maybe also in a persistence group (“RestoreOnStartup”). I see groups as post it stickers that can be used to represent many dimensions. Is that wrong? Should items only ever be in one group?


I agree that it’s quite useful to put an item in multiple groups. I use quite a few group switches to simplify automation rules.

I don’t have any reason to put these group switches in the model, so hopefully that will keep this from being a problem?


I agree. For example I have my blinds& curtains in location groups (ground floor, first floor and rooms) as well as functional groups (E,W,S,N) so they are controlled based upon light intensity - no matter their location, or manual switches.


I agree with you. I have many use cases to use the groups in a functional capacity. It optimizes the automation rules.



In the model. In the model it doesn’t make sense to have a light that is in the Kitchen and the Living Room. It doesn’t makes sense to have a temperature sensor that is a part of a thermostat and a light switch. That is what I’m referring to.

Of course it makes sense, is common and is encouraged to have Items be a member of multiple Groups for other purposes. But those other Groups wouldn’t be a part of the model.

In your case, the function Groups wouldn’t be a part of the model.

tl;dr: An Item should only be a member of one Group that is part of the model. But it can be a member of any number of other Groups that are not part of the model.


I think the Main UI is based off the model though, correct? Some people may want all their thermostats or lights grouped on a page.

That’s already done for you in the automatically generated pages.

If you want to see everything in a given room, that’s how it’s shown on the Locations page.

If you want to see all the points on a given piece of equipment, that’s how it’s shown on the Equipment page.

If you want to see all the points of a given type (e.g. all your lights or all your temperature sensors), that’s how it’s shown on the Properties Page.

The model can do this because that information is encoded in the model. You don’t need an AllTemps Group to see all the thermometers because they are already tagged as thermometers in the Model.

But if you want something different, than you are not working with a Page built from the model anyway and instead are custom creating a page. And in that case, maybe it does make sense to have an AllLights Group, but that Group isn’t and shouldn’t be a part of the model.


Oh, sorry – I missed the model part and that there was a difference. Thanks for taking the time to clarify! At least a couple of people learned something (including me, of course). So I hope my comment wasn’t totally useless. :slight_smile: