But you just said
Split brain syndrome. VERY short memory or something else?
But you just said
Split brain syndrome. VERY short memory or something else?
Yes, I thought you meant in general…
The OP of this thread didn´t want help. He wanted to whine… Thats fine by me.
If he want helps, I´ll agree with Markus, he need to stop whining and starts given details.
But I will still let him whine, at least untill he whines about something which (in my opinion) is obvious wrong. Then I´ll start attacking him
And that is what I did.
OH is rock solid compared to Home-Assistant!
If they DO post a problem, most people that could help will have muted the whiner’s thread. Then they can complain about us not being helpful.
Have I got the perfect song for you
I wouldnt know, cause I havn´t used HA except for a coupple of hours.
But I know and have experience with OH, and it has certainly crashed on me as well, even when running stable version.
I could have whined as well. Insted I took hand on it, moved on and ran into a plenty of problems with snapshots
I am glad that someone understands what I am trying to say, @Kim_Andersen explained it better than I did.
Since we are having a nice conversation now, let me clarify few things.
I am running latest stable release of openhab 2.4, with stable Ikea Trådfri binding. Also stable Samsung TV binding (that I gave up on long time ago) and I am also running stable mqtt binding that suddenly changed fundamentally the way it works, thus braking every integration I had in the latest stable update. So saying that I got into trouble myself by running unstable releases does not make any sense in this case.
Also it defies statements that stable release is totally reliable, it is just not true. The reason I am on stable is because I want it to be, well, stable.
I do run z-wave binding that is not on 2.4 branch, not because I use some new shiny device, this device is at least 4 years old and is supported for more then 3 years, see the discussion here from 2016 . Not exactly new and shiny in any way. I also returned one device to the seller, and new one I received has same issue. So tested with three devices from different countries, they all have stability issues. The reason I am on newer z-wave binding is actually stability improvements that did solve some problems. And I did not just started whining here without any arguments or prior actions, I did start these threads I mentioned in the very first post with intention of helping fixing it. Here and here . Anyone interested in details about the issue can look into it and continue discussion there.
About the Ikea, if you check last few messages here you will see that there are several people having exact same issue: @Orfait , @seeers, @andres_meyer , @shutterfreak, @OMR and probably someone else who never bothered to write about it. So I am failing to understand how is this issue working for everyone else except me, and what did I do wrong with my specific setup.
I feel very wrong naming bindings and probably their developers as I am very very grateful for awesome work they did on the project. I really am. But It just had to be said that some issues are preventing some users to successfully use and enjoy openhab.
The reason I am not pushing on those issues is because I know and understand that there is huuuuge job in the migration code from eclipse, so I am patiently waiting for that to be finished so that developers can focus on fixing our issues.
And btw, being a sustaining member doesn’t mean jack, it is not something you deserve, you send 10usd a year and you do not even support project development, money goes to foundation that promotes openhab, writes documentation and provides demo of cloud service. So no code is actually written thanks to my 10usd, and I do not need to have any technical knowledge of how and why things work internally because I support foundation that promotes the project. These just do not relate.
But I am pretty sure I am not talking just in my name, there are several people having stability issues, some mentioned it on this very post. And I understand that these are bindings issue and not openhab core, but two do not live separately nor can you use them separately, so openhab is all of its bindings together, cannot be separated in any way, entire system is unstable for quite some users.
And I am willing to take the rage of people who are in love with openhab (including myself) and of people hating whiners and lazyasses (including myself) in order to get the point out in the name of all of us having stability issues:
Things are just not stable enough, even on the stable release. This should not be the case as one of the main strengths of openhab is stability. Stability needs to be improved
They certainly are, and are actively looking into my case when they get the chance. As Kim also mentioned, I do not want to draw their focus of the migration process, I understand they will look into my case as they did many times before.
I would like to prioritize stability of all bindings as next big thing after the migration. Perhaps change some development routines, some core functionality, double checks, integrated automatic binding restarting feature, I do not know, something that will improve stability. With the intention that something good will come out of this
This feels like a good place to put a cap on this conversation.
My sister is an excellent problem solver, but she’s also fond of saying that “sometimes you just want to vent.” The rationale is that she already knows what the solution is, and just wants to express her frustrations to someone who will understand and appreciate them. My job is to say, “I hear you,” and that makes her feel better.
And you know, she’s right. Sometimes I just want to vent. It’s surprisingly satisfying when someone acknowledges that it’s okay for you to be frustrated, and it makes you feel like you’re not alone. I’m sure that lots/all of us do this from time to time with our partners/family/friends/coworkers.
I feel like that’s what’s happening here (and in other similar OH discussions). Some folks want to vent. Others are here to solve problems. Sometimes, the venters attack OH and/or its developers, which causes others to rise up in defense (and I will be one of those defenders). Sometimes, the readers perceive a venter as attacking OH, even when that wasn’t the venter’s intention or language. That’s why I made my earlier appeal for us to always be civil and friendly…even when we’re frustrated by others’ posts. It’s far easier to find common ground if we engage positively, openly, and without judgment.
The flip side is that venters have to understand and appreciate that this community is full of problem-solvers. So if you vent in this space, there is a very high probability that you will not get a satisfying response.
I think we should be open to people venting in this space, so long as they do not attack people or OH in an insulting and/or unfair way. After all, no one understands the possibilities and pitfalls of OH better than this community. For those of us who are more interested in solving problems, let’s just say “I hear you” and move on to helping people who are asking for it. In doing so, we’ll create a more welcoming community for everyone, we’ll spend more time helping people who want help, and we’ll have more fun.
I doubt it will have the effect that you seem to be hoping for. There are a lot of people that give up their time for free to make Openhab what it is, and when you are invested in a work of love it is easy to see your comments as an attack on their hard work and hence you will get the reactions you are getting. Nothing positive can come from whining, but as mentioned if you work towards getting help and moving forward I am sure it will then move forwards.
They are working hard at doing that and if you are new you came along at a bad time as a major change has been going on since the start of the year. Once the snapshots are stable, then a new milestone will be released. If you don’t like things changing and needing to fault find I would never recommend the snapshot which changes daily reflecting the work that is being done.
I have to laugh at this as the very thing you hated with the MQTT binding breaking (was a mistake to auto upgrade peoples v1 to v2 but the solution is easy if you are willing to talk about it) happens so many more times as often in Home Assistant. They loose people to Openhab because of this and they find it less stable. We loose people the other way as well.
I agree with you regarding this area and I have suggested splitting the Core and the bindings to make this clearer to new comers to the project. In my opinion the core should have a marketplace that allows upgrading the bindings easily without changing the core version and to access snapshot versions of bindings should be a tick box to allow them to be shown.
That will always be the case with an Opensource project that is fighting against the wind. Brands changing their APIs, close thing down and firmware updates break things. Until manufacturer hug each other and work together to make things easy it will stay that way. I doubt they will hug each other anytime soon
I am glad that you love Openhab, it could easily be missed that is the case and since you have coding experience I hope you stick with it and become someone that does contribute.
Then stop using what is causing the unstablity until it is resolved. Why suffer with unstability on all devices if it is caused by only 5% of your devices. Remove the 5% and then have a better working system for the remaining 95%.
Correct, but in this case it can have a damaging effect the opposite of what the OP is hoping to achieve because people that contribute take things personally and stop working on Openhab if people don’t apricate the work they do for free. This is why people step up to defend and the thread goes downhill fast.
@dakipro I would hate to see anyone that can code leave Openhab that includes you and the people that have written the bindings you have mentioned, so please stop whinging as it will not have the effect that you are hoping for and can only have the reverse effect.
For me: no, I won’t.
If someone asks a specific question, fine, I try to answer.
If someone writes tens of lines with mixing content about different bindings, I even don’t read it.
If the headline mentions words like “whining” or whatever: I don’t read the content of that post.
We have a growing number of users who seems to be very knowledgable, but they keep posting hundreds of lines of text about things the can’t change (this is not targeted to @dakipro).
That’s fine. I can’t stop that.
But don’t expect me investing any of my valuable time in that.
Public venting and whining in general is useless and a waste of time (mine, ours and yours).
Even more so as developers and steering people rarely read the forum, their discussions are taking place on Github. So you’re even failing to reach your audience and thus sole purpose of the post.
Better meet with your psychologist, @rpwong or his sister if you feel you need to.
And yes, to us (OH lovers, forum supporters) this feels like an attack.
That’s not right because you are not running the stable release only. You scattered the information across various posts so I’m not sure I got it right, but you use snapshot bindings, Docker and unsupported devices or features. So by definition this is not the stable release.
Yes there can be dependencies so you may not arbitrarily combine these building blocks.
And last not least “stable” does not imply “bug-free”.
Another important point is language. You have not defined/explained what you mean by “(in)stability”. Lack of (full featured) support of devices is not instability. Incompatibility is not as it takes two to talk to each other and if they don’t understand it’s not clear who’s causing that but given the asymmetry of the situation - Ikea doesn’t care about OH integration and users, it’s merely the opposite -, it’s not fair to blame OH in the first place. Same goes for samsungtv binding.
As @matt1 proposed just drop those devices for the time being or apply the workaround.
Just thinking out loud here, is it possible that some folks simply lose track of what release of binding they’re running and end up confused about the whole setup? (I know I’m certainly prone to this). I wonder if there were a simple script or something in the UI that could display a summary of pertinent info that OH users could copy and paste into their posts to indicate what exactly they’re running?
I believe if it were simpler to switch between snapshots/stable/dev versions it “might” make things easier. Maybe I’m talking through my arse though (known to happen)
With OpenHABian it is easy to switch BUT you are only supported switching to a newer version.
There’s so many ways, options and dependencies in running OH that any attempt to streamline this is so likely to break some installs that the attempt isn’t worth it. As some wise guy once postulated,
programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning.
You can switch between release, testing (milestone) and snapshots.
And you still can install any version from CLI but you have to do that manually.
I believe going backwards is not recommended though. That is why I reinstalled when I moved from a snapshot to 2.5M1.
Problem could be to find the 5% which makes the whole system (OpenHab) unstable.
Pointing at snapshots seems to has become the standard answer. In my opinion and experiences, thats not always correct.
Because of the structure (core and bindings) and because some of the latest snapshots (bindings) contain features which stable doesn´t have, but may be required. I believe most users who are using newer devices and/or popular devices feel encouraged to update without even thinking about they´re going towards a greater risc for something going wrong. Maybe, like me, they hope/see/feel, if anything goes wrong, the developer is there to help fast.
I´m very possitive this is the case for alot of users.
It’s generally not recommended neither on OH nor any other SW. If data structures change there’s usually a migration path up but none down. But you can roll back, i.e. restore the old system from backups.